Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc23.txt

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 135KB | 3,591 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XXIII
Jun. 6 '92 - Jun. 25 '92

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject: Re: fractal clouds
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 92 13:30:21 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Denton)

   Fractel clouds... Well there are ways of doin git....

  1: take an already generated fractel cloud image generated and usit as abackdrop
  2: take a vista iobject and make it clouds in imagine 2.0  <WARNING cloud objects dissapear when they are combined with a backdrop picture!!!!!!!
  3: Bug steve worley into releasing his new package "Esscence" that can take fractel noise, aply it to an object and make animatable clouds out of it, swirling and edieing etc etc...
        <Ive seen some of the output and have been calling steve all the time,
Im sure he hates my guts by now, but its worth the pain and torture when you see
the output!!!!!!!>
                                        Guardian AKA AHD
                                     <that guy that puts the jpegs on hubcap>

--


##

Subject: MMR+no RAM ->How fast?
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 17:08:53 -0500
From: Steven Joseph Chmura <[e-mail]>

Memory world is currently selling MMR 20mhz+68881 for $289.  The 25mhz
(all with mmu) +68882 is $350.

They also have static column ram for $89 with purchase.

I cannot afford to add 32bit ram to my system.  I am tired of the 68000
version of Imagine, Sculpt, VistPRO ect.

I realize that for normal systyem operations I will see little or no
improvement.  But how much imporvement will I see with these programs
that make extensive use of the math chip?

Also, how ,uch imporvement will I see in going from the 20mhz 68881 to
the 25mhz 68882?

Would the 512K static ram for kickstart be worth it for the rendering progs?

Also, has anyone heard any incompatability between MMR and SupraHD controllers?

Thanks.  I would really appreciate some answers.
:wq


##

Subject: video printer
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 21:10:24 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

well, i have managed to borrow a Sony color video printer UP-5000W for a
couple of days, and it is FUN ! have a pack of film, and am cranking out
hardcopy of toaster and imagine stuff ! the machine just hooks up through
composite, and prints in a minute or two ! small images only, 5x8, but
very nifty....


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 2:38:15 CDT
From: "Scott Jones (Dr. Jones)" <[e-mail]>

I also had the chance to see a video printer last week!  A Panasonic,
forget the model # (specs at work).  The both, at a Teacher's Tech conv
had the machine hooked up to a regular camcorder.  They had some picts
off from a Laser Video Player also, that were very impressive!  They
took a pict of me and gave it to me.  Not a bad little machine for
around $1200 (not meaning to sound like an add).

Sence seeing this machine I have been wondering about dunping 24bit
images to film (using the equipement we have).  We have a Dos machine
with a 35mm slide/film printer from Montage that does a great job!

Problem is that I would have to convert the IFF24s, FrameStores, RGBs
into Targa or 24bit Tiff before printing.

I know that there are several products that do this, but would just
like your guys' opinions on them.

Type at ya l8r..
Scott..



no fancy sig to skip :)



##

Subject: Labels
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 92 01:31:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Ok, Gang I have a question for you, (actually 2 questions for you)

#1 How do you put labels on glass objects?  Exp.  A scale on a beaker!

#2 Does anyone use Scenery Animator2?  I am trying to do an anim with it and
i keep getting ghosting on the anim. What I mean is that it will render the
first few frames then the top say 10 rows start showing ghosts from the
previous frames.  (Am I clear on the explanation? It is kinda confusing)

HELP!
Joe Cotellese


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 7:04:01 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Edward Chadez)

In a previous letter, Kevin Kodama wrote:
}
} well, i have managed to borrow a Sony color video printer UP-5000W for a
} couple of days, and it is FUN ! have a pack of film, and am cranking out
} hardcopy of toaster and imagine stuff ! the machine just hooks up through
} composite, and prints in a minute or two ! small images only, 5x8, but
} very nifty....

Yes...but how much does it cost? :-)

    Ed
--
   Edward Chadez                       CARL Systems, Inc
   Network/Operations                       [phone]
   Programmer                      Internet: [e-mail]


##

Subject: repeated messages
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 8:39:45 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Pietrowicz)

I've sent e-mail to [e-mail] and to [e-mail]
explaining the repeated e-mail message problem.  The e-mail looks like it
was handed off from cowpas.UUCP OK, but when emory hands off to it's next
site (email.sp.unisys.com) it doesn't delete the mail...and it just keeps
queuing it to be sent.  As I said, I sent e-mail to both sites, and hopefully
this will fix the problem.

On an Imagine related note  :*)

Someone on CompuServe said that his check for Steve's book was returned from
Impulse because they were out of stock!!  I gave that person the full info
about how to order the book directly, but I was a bit surprised to see that
Impulse just didn't re-order the book....   (Hey Steve, I'm sure you can
make a bunch-o-money if you release that book to the MS-DOS world when Impulse
hits the streets with it's Imagine for the PC.  Good luck!)

Steve


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 15:04:41 -0700
From: [e-mail] (66291000)

ADPro with its Professional Conversion Pak works great.  (Especially if you
already have ADPro.... The Conv. Pak is $90 list.)  It supports Rendition,
Targa, and TIFF.  I've used the TIFF module with great success.

   - Stefon


##

Subject: re: MMR+no RAM ->How fast?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:17:55 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

>From [e-mail]  Tue Jun  9 12:44:41 1992
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 07:32:32 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin W. Hobbs)
Subject: re: MMR+no RAM ->How fast?


Steven Joseph Chmura writes:

> Would the 512K static ram for kickstart be worth it for the rendering progs?

Yes, the ROM screen drawing routines are much faster when located in 32bit
memory.  (Faster screen redraws, as one example.)

> Also, has anyone heard any incompatability between MMR and SupraHD controllers?

I had the Supra 500XP HD.  Everything was find, untill I tried to get it working
with the MMR that is.  I was on the phone several times with MMR and Supra about
the problem.  Supra told me there weren't any problems that they had heard of,
they said they had tried the MMR on several A500's without a problem.  MMR told
me that they have had problems in the past with getting the MMR to work with the
Supra 500XP.  We tried several things; extra power supply for the HD, fine tuning
the voltage on the MMR board, trying to boot without the Supra Autoboot ROM, anyway
nothing worked.  I had to sell the Supra.  I now own a GVP, and it works!

I have seen on BIX that there was at least one other person that had the same
problems I did.

I would call MMR before you buy it.

Kevin Hobbs ([e-mail])


##

Subject: Welcome To My Nightmare
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:06:04 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

Howdy Imagineers :-)

Amazingly, the bouncey bouncey troubles seem to have ended.
I had to take the Imagine Mailing List offline for a while
and just kinda stockpile the posts and hold them until the
bounces ended. They seem to have stopped now.

"Klang" was not at fault. It is correct that he only posted
it one time and some evil mailing loop created the trouble.

The System Administrator here and the one at the other site
are gonna butt heads and see if they can figure out what
caused it so as to avoid it in the future from repeating
and repeating and repeating.  :-)

NOW...if I may impress on you the importance of only
passing along the [e-mail]
account to non-List members. When a new account is
requested, the first thing I do is send the little
Imagine Mailing List Guide as a sort of test send.

This will eliminate most of our troubles and keep
addresses that can't be connected properly from
accessing the List until we have things talking smoothly
between us. So if you want to pass along the List to
a friend...on USENET...or a BBS...or whatever....
please do! But please pass along the [e-mail]
address to begin with. I get to them every weekday without fail (when I am
at work that is ;-) )   so nobody has to wait long at all.


ALSO, the mail that I "collected" in a dummy account during the
bounce period will be following this note. It will be
listed as being from ME...since I am reposting it...but
the correct person posting will be referenced in it.

As far as the Imagine Contest goes....I still have a few
calls left to make regarding prizes, and after I get THAT all
settled, we will post the official rules and time periods and
that kinda thing....but since it has NOT been decided
yet, feel free to keep bouncing ideas around!

That's about it for now...thank you for the personal mail
phone calls, and your continued interest in the Imagine
Mailing List.


By the way, we are just about at the 300 mark for member sites.
Amazing ain't it?  :-)


Dave Wickard  [phone]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


##

Subject: A Not So FAQ?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:09:32 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

>From [e-mail]  Tue Jun  9 10:20:46 1992
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 10:20:25 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)
Subject: A not so FAQ???


I just had a problem losing polygons and entire objects in SCANLINE mode.  I
made a 25 frame animation that rendered overnight, and frames 3-5 have missing
objects (or at least parts of them).  Strange problem.  I really doubt it was
do to memory loss because I'm using no brushmaps, I was not using any other
programs at the time, and I have a 14Meg system.

Any ideas?  Meanwhile I'll see if I can repeat this problem.

PJ
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: re:Labels
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:14:11 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

>From [e-mail]  Tue Jun  9 11:36:30 1992
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 12:38:13 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Aragorn J Mallory)
To: [e-mail]

>[e-mail] writes:

>How do you put lables on glass objects?  Exp.  A scale on a beaker!

I had been puzzled by this one for some time myself and finally found the
solution thought a friend via Compuserve.  Frist of all you need to do a brush
wrap and you need to make the scale that you plan to wrap in Dpaint or some other
other simalar paint program.  Then in order to wrap the brush onto
the beaker you just do: brush wrap flat X wrap Z and with imagines 2.0 auto
size you shouldn't have to worry about the sizing.  Then click on the genlock
gadget, on the brush requestor, to make the background color disapear (so that
only the scale will apper on the beaker!)

Hope you can work though this!

Aragorn.   ([e-mail])
I Imagine therefor I am!


##

Subject: How To Buy Worley's Book
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:16:15 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

>From [e-mail]  Tue Jun  9 12:34:09 1992
To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Subject: How to buy Worley's book
Lines: 44
Date: Tue,  9 Jun 92 10:33:43 PDT

Time to clear up these rumors and bad info.  From the mouth of
Mike Halvorsen into my ear this morning: Impulse no longer sells
Steve Worley's book, "Understanding Imagine 2.0." Period. Don't
try to buy it from Impulse; they don't handle it anymore.

If you want to buy the book you have two choices: either visit
an Amiga dealer or bookstore who carries the book and buy it over
the counter there, or if your local dealer is numb to reality, then
order it directly from Steve Worley's company:

Apex Publishing
405 El Camino Real
Suite 121
Menlo Park, CA 94025

If buying direct from Apex, include a check or money order in the
amount of USDollars $29.95.  This price includes shipping and sales
tax.  Be sure to include your ship to address.

Apex does not have a phone number right now but when it does it'll
be published here.

If you wish to communicate with Steve Worley electronically you may do so
by email at:  [e-mail]

Steve Worley is also an Asst. Moderator of the Amiga Zone (which I
run) on The Portal System, a pay service with excellent Amiga support.
Portal's Amiga Zone has over 700 Meg of files online, 24 hours a day,
and the entire Fred Fish Disk collection (currently 670 disks) online,
batch Zmodem protocol, the entire Usenet, unlimited Internet email, & etc.
If you want to join Portal and be able to chat with Worley and a lot
of other Imagine users live, download zillions of Imagine-related
files (pictures, objects, support software, etc.) and visit Worley's
own Apex Publishing Vendor Support Area in the Amiga Zone, you can
do so by dialing 1-408-973-9111 or enter "c portal" at the "@" prompt
from any SprintNet (Telenet) node nationwide or enter "portal" at
the "please login:" prompt of any Tymnet node in North America.

If you want more info on Portal before signing up, or have any questions
about any of this, or want a copy of our nifty rate chart comparing
Portal's rates to those of Genie and CI$ (which will amaze you), then just
write to me: [e-mail]

Regards, Harv


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 08:14:17 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

To do picture conversion I usually use Paint Shop Pro (running under
windows).  It can keep track of up to 32 bit color maps regardless of
your PC's display card.  it dithers quite well and you can
trim images too.  What I really like about it is you can apply
"filters" to your image, in fact you can even make up custom filters
of your own choosing. (tricky but neet)  This is a shareware program,
but NOTHING is disabled! (just a register requester pops up at the
begining)  What I don't like about it... NO IFF support, so you need
another program to convert your IFF24's to Targa.
What I usually do, is Jpeg the Iff24 on the Amiga (makes it easier to
carry around on floppy too!) then UNjpeg it on the PC into a Targa
file. (Jpeg is PD for both platforms and the PC version automatically
creates TARGA files) If you are worried about lost information set the
Q factor to 100.

On a related note, Here at work we have a color Laser plotter,
(Raster Graphics) it does up to 22x34 prints from targa files but I
can't get very good results from it at all. it does 200 DPI but it
looks like a TV when you are too close (you can see the pixels and
color mixing) Anyone else know anything about this plotter?
Whats the DPI of the video printers?
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Subject: Looking for Anim collections
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 11:11:11 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

I am looking for information on animation films (collections like the
Amiga World ones) that I might be able to broadcast on our local
Public access center.  I think animation is way cool! and I would love
to be able to show some the the Amiga's great work off on the Access
station.
I recall there was an interview tape of Eric Schwartz (sp?) done a
while back, wonder if I might get the permission to display that on
Access??
Also there was a person in Cal. who posted (here I think) that he was
collecting Amiga animations and presentations on tape sort of like
Fred Fish does with programs.  I wrote his snail-mail address down,
but I can't seem to find it.  Did anyone contact him? Does he have
much of a collection?
P.S. If you are interested in having your animation played on TV. I
may just start a collection of my own. Of course this is NON-profit
Access television, but your name would of course appear on tv! (and
viewed by at least 2 people! {counting myself})

Has anyone done this?
Is anyone interested in this?

Shoot, the Amiga could blow some of the Liquid TV stuff from MTV out
of the water easy...

Later,...
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 09:07:47 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Mark Davis)

Errors to: [e-mail]
Subject: 'morph' anim(s) location?
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 09:07:45 -0700
From: ""mark w. davis  DTN 548.8749  "" <davis>
X-Mts: smtp

I recall a few postings detailing the contents and location
of a couple of imagine or imagemaster anims (in DCTV format?)
that Mark Thompson (possibly) made.  Can someone give me the
name(s) and location of these anims?  Thanks

mark davis



##

Subject: Caligari 2 & Imagine
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 12:27:48 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

Does anyone have a comparison of Caligari 2 and Imagine?

I've been thinking about picking up Caligari 2.  My reasons are:

   * The octree renderer it uses is more effecient for the 2nd
     and subsequent frames generated from the same scene.  Does
     anyone have any timing comparisons between Caligari2 and
     Imagine?

   * My general impression is that Caligari is less "finicky" than
     Imagine is.  I always have to spend a lot of time tweaking
     things to get my Imagine images to look good.  Since I have
     only a little time to play with these things, I'd like to
     do as much as possible in that time.  By "finicky" I mean
     several things.  One is that I always end up having to
     tweak various surface parameters to get things looking OK.
     Also, I run into things which I am pretty sure are bugs in
     Imagine.  I see odd results such as objects disappearing
     in a scene, but re-appearing if I make some other, unrelated
     change someplace else.  These things are quite frustrating
     at times.

The cheapest price I have seen for Caligari 2 is $235.  Has
anyone seen it cheaper?

Is this, in general, a good product?  I think it is probably
less powerful than Imagine (is this true?), but I'm willing to
live with that if I can get faster results with it.

   - steve



##

Subject: More on dissappearing objects in SCANLINE
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:03:29 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

I went back and rendered the frames individually (not as an anim), and they
all had all polys in place.  My theories are:

1) A very strange bug indeed.

2) The opening of the screens when putting togeter an anim are just enough to
   make some objects (and parts of objects) dissappear in mid-render.

I changed the size and location of the troublesome objects, and the SAME ones
dropped out of sight!  It seems that different times and settings, different
objects would be affected, but this is not the case.  It is only 3 frames
that have problems (2,3,4), even rendering with different object configurations.

Wierd.

PJ Foley
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: Planets
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:10:31 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

Should I be splitting up my questions into different letters?  Or do "we"
prefer less letters with more questions?  These are so unrelated that I
didn't want any one question to be ignored if the others did not have anyone's
interest.

How can one get convincing planets in Imagine???  I heard Lightwave 3D has
settings to help this (I bet the Bab5 people were in on this one!).

I have tried such things as:

Huge IOR's.
Fog planets with a fog length of 1 or less.
Putting a dense atmosphere object around a planet to diffuse the shading.
Other wild and crazy things.

Would moving the light source back help?
How about adding a second fill-light (I was hoping not to come down to this).

Any help is muy mucho appreciado!

PJ Foley
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: Essence
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:05:03 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

Does someone have a posting of the different texture maps that are going to
be available in Essence?  I saw an incomplete one a week or so back on
Studio BBS, and don't want to call back due to long-distance bills.

Thanks!

PJ Foley
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: 'morph' anim(s) location?
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 14:38:19 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Mark Davis writes:
> I recall a few postings detailing the contents and location
> of a couple of imagine or imagemaster anims (in DCTV format?)
> that Mark Thompson (possibly) made.  Can someone give me the
> name(s) and location of these anims?

I have never made any of my 3D animations public simply because of size
(they start at about 3MB and go up). I did however upload an Imagemaster
morphing animation in DCTV format which generated a phenominal number of
very positive responses. It can be found on hubcap in following location:
/pub/amiga/incoming/graphics/MarkMorph.lzh
It is an animation of my wife turning into a leopard and is rather
impressive IMHO :-)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re:  Looking for Anim collections
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 14:57:04 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

The tape of the Eric Schwartz interview should be available from AFIT user
group in Dayton, OH.  Their bbs # is 513-879-9798, and you need to talk to
Mr Rumford (I believe that is his name).  Just holler on the comp.sys.amiga
somewhere for AFIT, and you'll be sure to find them.
The tape was originally played on a Public Access channel, so I believe the
program is public domain.  It does cost about $20 for a tape though (for
duplication, materials, and shipping), and it is near commercial quality.
You might also want to see if you can get it on a larger tape format.

PJ Foley
(Remote AFIT member)
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:18:23 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Adam Benjamin writes:
> On a related note, Here at work we have a color Laser plotter,
> (Raster Graphics) it does up to 22x34 prints from targa files but I
> can't get very good results from it at all. it does 200 DPI but it
> looks like a TV when you are too close (you can see the pixels and
> color mixing)

Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4"
will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very
evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE.
Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have
jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 18:28:54 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

> Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4"
> will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very
> evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE.
> Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have
> jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K.

Last year, I made some inquiries about making posters out of some of my
renderings.  It was quite a while ago, so things are a bit fuzzy.
For a 16x20 poster, it would cost around 100 bucks for the first one.
The company wanted a targa image file in something like 4000x5000 (??)
I know this is off the topic a bit, but may still be of interest.

I will probably look into it again, cuz they make good christmas presents :-)

dan.




##

Subject: Re: Planets
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 19:49:29 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>Should I be splitting up my questions into different letters?  Or do "we"
>prefer less letters with more questions?  These are so unrelated that I
>didn't want any one question to be ignored if the others did not have anyone's
>interest.
>
    probably better to split them up if you want more people to read
them...

>How can one get convincing planets in Imagine???  I heard Lightwave 3D has
>settings to help this (I bet the Bab5 people were in on this one!).
>
>I have tried such things as:
>
>Huge IOR's.
>Fog planets with a fog length of 1 or less.
>Putting a dense atmosphere object around a planet to diffuse the shading.
>Other wild and crazy things.
>
>Would moving the light source back help?
>How about adding a second fill-light (I was hoping not to come down to this).
>
>Any help is muy mucho appreciado!
>
>PJ Foley
>Kinetic Dreams
>
>

    I have recently made an anim of this spaceship coming around a
planet in 24 bit and found that the PASTELLA texture for Imagine 2.0 is
great for this, if you just want swirls of color.

    Try these settings for a blue planet with some swiling lighter
blue shades.  Note:  If you are not rendering in 24 bit, they really
don't look that good....you kind of need 24 bit to get the full effect:

    ATTRIBUTES:
            R    G    B    Value
    Color:        0    0    255    *
    Reflect:    0    0    0    *
    Filter:        0    0    0    *
    Specular:    0    0    0    *
    Dithering:    *    *    *    255
    Hardness:    *    *    *    0
    Roughness    *    *    *    0
    Shininess:    *    *    *    0

    Texture:    PASTELLA

    Detail Size:    32
    RandomSeed:    123
    Red1:    255
    Green1: 255
    Blue1:  255
    Red2:    0
    Green2:    0
    Blue2:    255
    Red3:    255
    Green3:    255
    Blue3:    255
    Red4:    0
    Green4:    200
    Blue4:    255

    This is done for a sphere with size 40,40,40.

    Hope this helps.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]




##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 19:58:38 EDT
From: Jason Andreas <[e-mail]>

>
>
> > Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4"
> > will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very
> > evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE.
> > Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have
> > jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K.
>
> Last year, I made some inquiries about making posters out of some of my
> renderings.  It was quite a while ago, so things are a bit fuzzy.
> For a 16x20 poster, it would cost around 100 bucks for the first one.
> The company wanted a targa image file in something like 4000x5000 (??)
> I know this is off the topic a bit, but may still be of interest.
>
> I will probably look into it again, cuz they make good christmas presents :-)
>
> dan.

  Two summers ago I worked for a film lab in New Jersey do imaging software.
 One of our projects was to do the Pixar posters.   It was a once a year thing
 for Siggraph.  Anyway, Pixar sent us 9track tapes with images at 16k x 16k.
 We sent the tapes to a company in Florida that makes film recorders, (forget
 the name, but my boss went to high school with one of their people)  They'd
 send us the film back, and we'd output it on CibaChrome (forget the exact
 spelling) at 30" x 40".   There were NO visible scanlines, etc.   Looked
 like some incredible photograph of a highly detailed model.   You might
 have seen them at any of Pixar's booths at Siggraph the past couple of years.
 Anyway, the price was $400 per print.   They cost us around $130 to make.
 I'm still good friends with the owner and I'll ask him how much he'd charge
 for a few prints if anybody would like.  And yes I did give away as gifts
 a couple of prints of the bicycle shop from Red's Dream.   They are great
 to hang in your office.




##

Subject: Imagine v.s. Caligari & Flame-objectz
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 17:20:35 -0700
From: Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]>

>  * The octree renderer it uses is more effecient for the 2nd
>     and subsequent frames generated from the same scene.  Does
>     anyone have any timing comparisons between Caligari2 and
>     Imagine?


Maybe you are referring to the 'cubic reflection maps' (or
something like that)?  This is where the scene is rendered once
from the view of each reflective object, and then that rendering
is used for the subsequent frames.  Supposedly makes rendering
reflections much faster, in the long run.
I'm not sure about the overall speed of Caligari v.s. Imagine,
I don't use Caligari, but I've heard that Imagine generally
renders faster.


Caligari *does* have a nice interface, which *can* make your
work faster and easier than Imagine.  But a few things you
should be aware of: (I just got on this list today, so pardon
me if you've heard this before) Caligari does *not* multitask,
and it does not support 24-bit files (the consumer version
anyway), meaning it does not render in 24-bit, and it does
not support 24-bit texture/image maps.  The full-on Broadcast
version *does*, but it's like $2000+, and I think you were
interested in the ~$250 version, right?


OK. So now for my first Imagine-list question:

Has anyone figured out a way to make decent-looking flames?
I have a gas-lamp object and I want to put a flame in the
middle of it.  I've tried lots of things, bright objects, light
objects, fog objects, and combinations of all of those; nothing
seems to give me a realistic flame effect.  The 'bright'
objects aren't bright enough to be flames, and the 'light'
objects don't look good either.  What I eventually want to do
is map an image of some flames onto the flame-object, and then
animate the flame-object to look like real flames, as well
as animate the light coming from the flame, to get the
flickering effect.   Any ideas?

-----------                                                       //
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Graphics/Animation Designer \\//



##

Subject: re: 'morph' anim(s) location?
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 21:49:10 -0700
From: Mark Davis <[e-mail]>

Well, I ftp'd from hubcap /pub/amiga/incoming/graphics/MarkMorph.lzh
from hubcap but all I seem to get is a CRC error when attempting to
extract the file on my amiga and on my workstation (ultrix) whether
using lhA or lharc.  i.e.

soomee_4> lharc l MarkMorph.lzh
 PACKED    SIZE  RATIO  CRC       STAMP       NAME
------- ------- ------ ---- ----------------- -------------
1282413 1449462  88.4% 49e1 Apr 23 18:00 1984 morph.anim
lharc Checksum error (LHarc file?)a: No such file or directory
lharc Unknown header (LHarc file ?): No such file or directory
------- ------- ------ ---- ----------------- -------------
1282413 1449462  88.4%      Jun 10 21:04 1992    1 file

I get a similar message when using lhA or my workstation.  On the
amiga it hangs lhA or lharc,  I didn't think to try lz.  Here is the
results of trying lz on the amiga...

Listing of archive 'MarkMorph.lzh':

Original Packed Ratio  Date      Time   Type  CRC  Name
-------- ------  --- --------- -------- ---- ------------
 14494621282413  11% 23-Apr-84 18:00:46 -lh1- 49E1 morph.anim
WARNING: Skipping extraneous/corrupted data

Come to think of it, I do not think that I have ever been able
to ftp anything from hubcap without problems... I now recall attempting
to retrieve the textures mbc uploaded only to find that I couldn't extract
them, from my workstation nor Amiga, without CRC errors.

I do not have the time nor inclination to troubleshoot this problem...
I am able to ftp from other sources, wuarchive, physik, ux1, etc without
problems; is MarkMorph.lzh available on another site?

mark




##

Subject: Re: Looking for Anim collections
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:07:21 -0400
From: [e-mail]

>I am looking for information on animation films (collections like the
>Amiga World ones) that I might be able to broadcast on our local
>Public access center.  I think animation is way cool! and I would love
>to be able to show some the the Amiga's great work off on the Access
>station.


        I  remember seeing an advertisement in a recent issue of AVID
magazine (a most excellent "zine" for Amiga 3D'rs), selling thier
collection of Amiga animation for the unbelievably low low price of $10
(american!) If I recall correctly the tape was at least an hour long and
contained the latest and greatest of Amiga Animation of far and near. The
creaters are purposely keeping the price ALAP so anyone can afford this
viewing pleasure. I will check on the details of ordering ect.. and post
them soon.

Dave Kelly  --------->  [e-mail]



##

Subject: brushmaps & glass
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 21:36:02 CST
From: Jeff Niebergall <uunet!unibase.Unibase.SK.CA!jnieber@email>

There have been a number of postings recently about using the
genlock button to decal a brushmap. I can get it to work fine
except if the object is glass. All I get is the glass without
the brushmap. I am using the glass.att from hubcap and it works
fine. I tried different attributes with the same brushmap
settings and it decals perfectly.

Any ideas?

Jeff, [e-mail]

--


##

Subject: video printer
Date:     Wed, 10 Jun 1992 20:00:00 -0400
From: Glen Mead <[e-mail]>

Hi All,

With these video printers that I've seen mentioned frequently as of late,
what type of print process do they use?  What type of price range are they
in?  (I've seen one mail order outlet selling them for $700 US)

UG> One of our projects was to do the Pixar posters.   It was a once a year
UG> for Siggraph.  Anyway, Pixar sent us 9track tapes with images at 16k x

Can anybody give some information on this Siggraph?  I've heard it
mentioned in the past but I know absolutely nothing about it.  Any info
would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Glen Mead - RZ/RD 500 Owners Group
---
 * Amiga-Reader V2.00B *
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044


##

Subject: Bug or undesired feature?
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 12:26:09 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

I noticed that I cannot use a fog object with a Linear texture map to make it
fade out into transparancy.  The reason I want to do this is simple:  light
beams that start dense, then fade off gradually (realistically).
The fog instead does a color transition (if any) and keeps its density. ICK!

Other bugs (?): does the Auto positioning of brushmaps always line up to
the WORLD axis instead of the object axis?  This makes planes that have
been rotated (such as a six sided cube) get streaks from a cross section
of the brush instead of the full brush.  I have to place the brush by hand,
which for some reason is a bit stubborn to scale (or too erradic).

The Room for Improvement section:
Subgroups (first of all, need to be renamed to subobjects, or surface objects,
or something like that) need to be able to be changed, deleted, and renamed,
I like these, but they need help.  Also, when restricting a brush/texture to
a subgroup, the auto positioning/scaling should try to localize on that subgroup


##

Subject: images avail on hubcap
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1992 17:01:55 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

I know this is not imagine specific but it is 3D and I know there are
users in this mailing list that would be interested as I am by reading
this list yet I don't use imagine:

I have made availible for ftp, two 24 bit Caligari-Broadcast2.1 renderings
and placed them at   hubcap.clemson.edu  in the directory /pub/amiga/
incoming/graphics . The pics are called Bightside.lzh and Darkside.lzh .
These images were made possible with the assistance of Octree Software and
RCS Management.

These images were of 14 I made (the remaining 12 were made on the sgi/
Taarna Animation System, though) for a 2 week exhibition of computer art
in a rented Montreal warehouse space, called <<Memoires Vives>> put on
by Infographie Canada in co-operation with FIFOM. The 18 participants
in this exhibition include inhouse artists from SoftImage and Taarna
Systems as well as many independant artists from the microcomputer/most
often the Amiga, community. The show is accompanied by a small catalogue
finishes on june14.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

-stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: Steve's Book
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 14:19:34 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Toaster Man)

I just received my copy of Steve's book.. I think Its outstanding and every
one should have a copy. :)

For people wandering were to order.  I received mine from Safe Harbor.  It
was $28 and I received It in 3 days.  I do not have anything to do with safe
harbor.  I just think they are one of the best mail order places.

Render On..

Steve Tietze.
VisioNary Graphics/Video..



##

Subject: Essence: where to get from
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 17:53:07 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Raoul Kaltenhaeuser)

In this list, I heard of the existence of a texture program named
essence. Where can I get it? Is there a distributor in germany, or
do I have to order in the states?

Thanks for the info.

Raoul

-------------------------------------------
Raoul Kaltenh"auser                       |
[e-mail] |



##

Subject: Re: brushmaps & glass
Date:     Fri, 12 Jun 1992 12:17:12 -0400
From: John J Humpal <[e-mail]>

Jeff Niebergall writes:
>
> There have been a number of postings recently about using the
> genlock button to decal a brushmap. I can get it to work fine
> except if the object is glass. All I get is the glass without
> the brushmap. I am using the glass.att from hubcap and it works
> fine. I tried different attributes with the same brushmap
> settings and it decals perfectly.

    Hmm.  It works fine for me on all different kinds of attributes,
including the glass.att from hubcap.  The only thing I can think of is
a mismatch between what Imagine thinks the genlock color is and the
background color (i.e., the "clear" part of your "decal").  Make sure
that the imagine.config lists the genlock color as pure black, and
that the background of your brushmap is also pure black.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer



##

Subject: InterChange Plus
Date: 12 Jun 92 14:25:31 EDT
From: "Syndesis Corp/J. Foust" <[e-mail]>

To: >INTERNET: [e-mail]

Many of you have been calling Syndesis Corporation asking about the
new release of InterChange Plus.  Here's some news about it, plus
more information about what it can do.

Armed with this background, I hope the educated users on the networks
can come up with some novel suggestions for new features and
last-minute improvements.  I'd prefer that you send lengthy replies
directly to me here on Compuserve, which can be reached via the
Internet.  If you've got ideas the entire newsgroup might be
interested in, post them to the group.

All you spies and apple-polishers out there, save this message and
pass it on to our competition.  When they copy us, we'll all know
why.  :-)

InterChange is a system for translating 3D objects.  It is an
extensible system, meaning it's a collection of multitasking tools
that cooperate to read formats and write formats, as well as
manipulate and generate new data.  It's a batch-oriented tool, you
select a number of files in any format, select an output format,
press a button and all the files are converted.

The new release is called InterChange Plus, aka "ICP".  The interface
has changed a little bit.  We no longer open a half-dozen windows in
your face.  Instead, you can easily open and close any Converter
windows you want.  By default, you only see the main InterChange
window.  We're still 1.3 and 2.0 compatible.  ICP now uses the IEEE
math library, meaning you get a speed improvement on your
accelerated, FPU-equipped system.

We're going to bundle together almost every Amiga-oriented 3D product
we've got into a single package.  ICP will include Converters for
LightWave objects and scenes, Imagine objects, Turbo Silver 2.0 and
3.0, Sculpt, VideoScape 1.0 and 2.0, PAGErender, Atari ST CAD-3D,
Vista DEMs, the InterFont Converter for making 3D titles and 20
InterFonts, an ImageMaster ISHAPE Converter, the Statistics Converter
for making an ASCII file describing the geometry of an object, the
Pro Draw and Aegis Draw Converters, a new Surface Converter that
makes it easy to extract, modify and substitute surface attributes
during conversions, and Tools that manipulate objects in any format,
like PointReduce, Scale and GridSnap.

There may be a few more Converters and Tools that I'm not revealing
now.  (We've left out the Forms In Flight 1.0 Converter and the
InterFont Designer.  Sorry.)  InterFont no longer exists as a separate
product, and neither does the Turbo Silver Module Pack.

The price will increase, but the upgrade will be the difference in
the old price and the new price.  We'll figure out an option for
people who've bought InterChange recently.  When it's ready, we'll
certainly post messages here and everywhere, send press releases to
the magazines, send out review copies to reviewers, and send out a
newsletter to all registered owners and interested potential
customers.  If you're interested, or you want to make sure we have
your correct address, please send a postcard or letter to Syndesis,
N9353 Benson Road, Brooklyn, WI 53521, or FAX [phone].

Please write or FAX, giving us your address and any product serial
numbers.  Please do not tie up the phone with endless calls asking
when it will be ready.  We *do* want to sell you a copy, and we will
do our best to find you ASAP if you just give us a hint as to where
you are.  We're proofing the manual now and doing the final testing.
We hope to get it out in a few weeks.

We've much improved the translation of surfaces.  Where the old
InterChange had about seven different textures with colors, we now
translate RGB color, RGB reflectivity, RGB filter, diffuse, gloss,
specularity, refraction, smoothing, luminous and wireframe
attributes, plus surface names.  We can't translate bitmaps or image
maps, sorry.  Anyone out there have a peculiar problem they'd like to
solve when it comes to mapping surface attributes from program to
program?

What other 3D tools would you like to see us develop?  Is there a
particular operation you'd love to have automated?  Some ideas:
morphing, re-centering, scaling, rotating, joining, re-coloring, etc.

Or, would it be handy if our newsletter sold a few 3D add-ons like
Worley's books, tutorial videos, Markoya's surface and texture
products, an object disk collection, etc?

All the old limits are gone.  You can now convert objects much larger
than you could ever render in a given amount of memory with any of
today's Amiga programs.  The old InterChange has a limit of about
10,922 triangles, although that was an unfortunate side-effect we
didn't intend to introduce.  The new limits are on the order of
billions of anything.  Does this hold anyone back?

When we convert from Imagine, we generate named surfaces for use in
programs such as LightWave.  We group all the unique collections of
settings and make all those faces parts of surfaces.  Currently, the
surface names are created from the Imagine sub-object name and a
computer-generated English color name, for example, "MAMMAL: light
orangish brown".  Surface names can be up to 64 characters long, but
they're often limited by practical concerns such as the length of the
string gadgets in LightWave's Modeler, for instance.  Some beta
testers thought the long, explicit names were a good idea, although
others have complained they'd like short and sweet names like
"Surface 0", so we may make this an option.

When we convert to Imagine, these surfaces become 'groups' within
sub-objects, making it very easy for you to re-color groups of faces
within Imagine.  Unfortunately, we can't take your 'groups' and
convert them to surfaces, since two 'groups' can encompass the same
face.

Yes, we do read and write both LightWave objects and LightWave
scenes.  This means you can convert an Imagine hierarchical object
directly to a LightWave scene, retaining all the hierarchy links and
relative positions of objects.  Or vice-versa.

Not everyone seems to know this, but we've been selling high-end
Converters for AutoCAD DXF, Wavefront .obj and Digital Arts .AOB for
more than a year and a half.  Yes, they cost more than ordinary
Amiga-oriented Converters, but so does AutoCAD and Wavefront.  If you
own one of these high-end converters, you'll get the ICP upgrade and
an upgraded high-end Converter for free without doing another thing.
If demand dictates, we could develop an InterChange 3D Studio
Converter.

We're also in a unique position with the TIO system that we created
for NewTek's Toaster 2.0.  Syndesis developed the 3D Studio,
Wavefront, Swivel 3D and AutoCAD DXF import functions for LightWave
2.0, as well as the Macintosh PICT load and save tools.  With TIO,
you can load 3D data into LightWave.  TIO is extensible, meaning we
can develop and sell new TIO modules for loading new formats and new
data into LightWave.  Any requests?  Go wild, we'll make more.

Yes, we could make an Imagine loader for the Toaster, except we'd
need to coalesce an Imagine hierarchy into a single LightWave
object.  If you used InterChange Plus, you could convert it to a
LightWave scene.





##

Subject: hey hey hey!
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 18:46:14 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Hi, kids!

Yes, I still exist. :-) Just keeping myself busy. I still read the
list, it is just not as convienient to post as often.

Work goes on schedule with Essence, the algorithmic texture library.
Packaging and docs proceed on schedule, looks like it will be shipping
the first week of July, pretty close to my previous prediction. The
number of textures has increased to 65 (sixty five!), though.

In response to a couple of questions, indeed, there ARE fractal bumps
in Essence. This allows you to make asteroids out of perfect spheres,
make rough stone, or just add variation to a surface. The noise is
EXTREMELY versatile: it is amazing what hoops the fractal textures
will loop through. Allen Hastings suggested a trick with fractal bumps
to make a Romulan cloaking effect: you make a transparent lens, and
add fractal bumps. When light refracts through the lens, it is
distorted by the bumps.  You change the character of the bumps in time
to make the distortion shimmer, and simultaneously decrease the
amplitude until there's no more distortion. Looks WAY cool!

Clouds? Absolutely! That's perhaps the easiest trick to do with
fractal transparency. Flames and smoke are harder, but possible.

The extra textures that were added just last week are a whole suite of
TRANSITIONS.  Impulse's "Linear" is very useful since you can make
gradients or layers on an object, and animated, it can be cool for
transitions as it flies across the object. Anyway, I've added a
smoother version of linear (so you can create subter transitions) as
well as a radial and cylindrical version. The cool part is there are
versions that use fractal noise to "blur" the transition. Instead of
being a simple gradiation, the noise blurs the transition so you get
an effect like fire or smoke. By varying the character of the noise,
you can make something like mold encroaching over your object. Of
course, it is completely animatable: the noise will eddy and swirl in
time. Using the cylindrical, fractal noise based, transition, you can
apply it to a disk and form a sun with an animated, firy corona.
Fractal based rings can make Saturn's rings, or applied to a sphere,
you can make neat bands of color like Jupiter's surface. All animated,
of course.

Oh, and a fractal spiral, too. Great for galaxies, or maybe simulating
an LSD nightmare...

Lots of other fun textures too: a "flatten" texture that is really a
simple hack: it shades your object like it was made out of flattened
cardboard. Not generally useful, but it is an interesting optical
effect.


-----

Anyway, sorry to make all you guys drool... I'm proud of these things
and can't wait to get them on the market. I'll post just before they
are out: people who read this list will have FIRST CRACK at them.


Keep on rendering!

-Steve

[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: video printer
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 13:59:00 CDT
From: "Scott Jones (Dr. Jones)" <[e-mail]>

>
> I am wondering how's the quality ( color & resolution ) of the video printer
> compare w/ ...say a color Inkjet or a color Postscript ??
>
> <Lawrence>...
>
>
To give you some idea of the res and color of the pict that I had taken
of me on the Panasonic video printer, I will scan the pict in at 300 dpi
and upload it as a tga file.  If someone could convert this to IFF24 I
would appreciate it (as I dont have the capabilities yet :-))

The picts that this thing printed out where about 4" x 5" (no bigger) and
the color looked as good as any 24bit I have seen yet.

When I asked the rep about the resolution he told me that it all depended
on the resolution going in, but never did really say what it was capable
of..

The pict of me was taken off from a home cam corder, so I would guess
a res of 200 lines or so..

Scott..



##

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 16:37:58 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Aragorn J Mallory)

I bought Lissa to produce objects for both extruding objects along paths
and locking the Imagine camera to it as well for controlling its motion.
I have no trouble using the resulting shapes to extrude objects along,
but I can't get the camera to track them. I'm saving out the Lissa files
as Generate/Object closed path, but Imagine says that they aren't paths.
I don't know whether I'm using Lissa improperly, or whether I haven't
learned how to have Imagine's camera use any paths other than those
created from within Imagine. Any ideas?

Aragorn.

I Imagine therefor I am!



##

Subject: RCS 040 board Comments
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 20:13:53 -0400
From: Mark Visconti <[e-mail]>

   I upgraded my 2000 w/2620 to an RCS 040 board through RCS's "User's Group"
deal.  I am very satisfied with the 040 board and feel that others should
consider taking advantage of their offer (ends June 31, 1992).
   The board arrived about two to three weeks after I had mailed RCS my
certified check.  Upon receiving the board, I skimmed the manual.  Finding
nothing different than installing the A2620 (insert board in coprocessor slot),
I popped the puppy in.  BTW, I have a 2000 rev 4.3 motherboard and a GVP
Series II w/105M Quantum(rev 4.5 of GVP FastROM).  I'm running WB2.04.
I had some minor problems with the GVP controller (I need to solder a 1K
resistor at U605 from pin 11 to 20 to be able to access RAM on the GVP board.
>From what I understand, this is a common problem with 4.3 motherboards and
accelerator cards), but eventually (30 minutes or less) got the board up
and running.  It is very hard to describe the difference between an 020
running at 16 MHz and the 040 running at 28MHz.  Phenomenal comes to mind.
I ran some basic speed tests (AIBB and SysInfo) and later did some rendering
comparisons against a friend's 3000.  The difference was enough that my friend
began considering selling his 3000 :-).  Basically, we saw about a 3 times
speed increase for the 040 over the 3000 (actually a little more and it varied
of course).
   The only other problem I have had is with some software corrupting memory
when it crashes.  I get a red screen on reboot (you know, gray, gray, ..., and
a red in there) and I have to power down or I'll crash continually.  This
doesn't happen all the time, just enough to be slightly annoying.   Anyone
know the cause of this or a fix so that I don't need a power down ?
Some Game software doesn't particular care to run in 040 mode, but I can
always go back to 68000 mode if I really want to play (there is a hardware
switch).  Playing with the caches and copyback mode will also allow some
software to function properly with the 040.
   I think the RCS offer has been extended to the end of June (June 31,1992).
The price is $995 with 0 meg of memory.  RCS Management is selling 4 megs for
$175 (1x8 SIMMs - 70ns I think).  The board will take 4x9's, but mine didn't
like it when I mixed the 4x9's (70ns) with 1x8's (80ns).  The manual suggestedd
that this might be the case, so I can't complain.
   If you are doing heavy math intensive stuff, this board is perfect.  The
price/performance ratio has gotta be one of the best you can find for the Amiga.
(Oh, the 3000 that I ran speed tests against was a 25MHz 3000 not a 16MHz one)

If you have any questions about the RCS board, feel free to mail me.  I'll be
happy to try and answer your questions.

-- Mark Visconti
---------------------------
[e-mail]
b24a!uunet!b24a!mav![e-mail]
All of the above opinions are my own.  I am not affiliated with RCS Management
in any way, shape, or form.  I just own a Fusion-Forty board.



##

Subject: Re: RCS 040 board Comments
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 18:47:53 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

> and running.  It is very hard to describe the difference between an 020
> running at 16 MHz and the 040 running at 28MHz.  Phenomenal comes to mind.
> I ran some basic speed tests (AIBB and SysInfo) and later did some rendering
> comparisons against a friend's 3000.  The difference was enough that my friend
> began considering selling his 3000 :-).  Basically, we saw about a 3 times
> speed increase for the 040 over the 3000 (actually a little more and it varied
> of course).
    I also received the user group special and am very impressed with it.
Although there are some features pertaining to the software that are not
descrived in the manual,I found the manual fairly adequate. The tests that I
ran found my 4.5rev Amiga2000 at 1.2x faster than an A3000 with a PP&S '040.
The accelerator installed very easily into my machine and the installation
software performed flawlessly. I recommend having WB2.0 already installed in
your system.
    The only thing that I found that was temporarily annoying was a
command in the AREXX script that gets executed at startup was not directed to
NIL:, thereby causing a ResetWB message requestor to appear at bootup. Once
redirected, I have not even had a hiccup since then. I use an IVS GrandSlam
Controller that I am most happy with. The performance is remarkable.

>    The only other problem I have had is with some software corrupting memory
> when it crashes.  I get a red screen on reboot (you know, gray, gray, ..., and
> a red in there) and I have to power down or I'll crash continually.  This
> doesn't happen all the time, just enough to be slightly annoying.   Anyone
> know the cause of this or a fix so that I don't need a power down ?
> Some Game software doesn't particular care to run in 040 mode, but I can
> always go back to 68000 mode if I really want to play (there is a hardware
> switch).  Playing with the caches and copyback mode will also allow some
> software to function properly with the 040.
I have not had any problems with any software that I use. I have to turn off
copyback on a couple of packages...but most are behaving well.

>    I think the RCS offer has been extended to the end of June (June 31,1992).
> The price is $995 with 0 meg of memory.  RCS Management is selling 4 megs for
> $175 (1x8 SIMMs - 70ns I think).  The board will take 4x9's, but mine didn't
> like it when I mixed the 4x9's (70ns) with 1x8's (80ns).  The manual suggestedd
> that this might be the case, so I can't complain.
>    If you are doing heavy math intensive stuff, this board is perfect.  The
> price/performance ratio has gotta be one of the best you can find for the Amiga.
> (Oh, the 3000 that I ran speed tests against was a 25MHz 3000 not a 16MHz one)
>
> If you have any questions about the RCS board, feel free to mail me.  I'll be
> happy to try and answer your questions.
>
I purchased the RAM locally for $600 for 16MB. My dealer also carries the
RCS Fusion Forty for $995 for user group members. The dealer is only doing it
as a service for RCS. Check to see if your local dealer does the same.
> -- Mark Visconti
Juan Trevino
[e-mail]

I am not affiliated with any company mentioned above. I only use thier products
as a satisfied customer.





##

Subject: video printer
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 21:13:37 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

re: resolution/quality of video printers-
well, the Sony "mavigraph" UP-5000W i am trying out  has an ink color ribbon,
and uses print paper-the final image looks like a polaroid photo-
the image is a VIDEO image, dependent on the video signal (i am using
composite, from the Toaster, but the printer has inputs for RGB too)
for final quality. Color Postscript is dependent on the output device
resolution, which will probably allow *very* high quality images with the
right device, unlimited by the screen view.
The output is more photograph like (in terms of texture, not quality) as
opposed to "paper printed" like.

did this make any sense ? :)
Actually, the most interesting technology i have seen is the subliminal dye
or continuous tone printers, from Canon, i.e. Some come very close
to photographic (quality, not just texture :) )

I have seen setups where a Macintosh is hooked up to a Canon C500 laser color
copier, and outputting computer images ! very nice idea !

kevink
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Need help sizing objects in STAGE editor
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 10:47:56 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

I am having problems sizing a particular object in the stage editor (a simple
2-face plane).  If I rotate this object 90 degrees on world Z (which is still
local Z), then scale it manually along the world Y axis, I have no problem.
If I DO NOT rotate this object, then scale it along local or world Z, the
                                                    WHOOPS!     Y--^
object will return back to its original size as soon as I leave or change
frame number.  I have tried using the "Size Bar" menu selection and several
other things.  I do not have the action editor morphing the size at all, I
just have a first-frame size bar.  Keep in mind, even frame one has the
original size as soon as I leave the frame and come back.

This is very frustrating, and I would appreciate any help or ideas I can
get as soon as possible.  Thanks in advance!!!

PJ Foley
Kinetic Dreams

"I Imagine, therefour I iz."


##

Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 13:09:49 -0700
From: Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (PJ Foley) wrote:

> I am having problems sizing a particular object in the stage editor
> (a simple 2-face plane).  If I rotate this object 90 degrees on
> world Z (which is still local Z), then scale it manually along the
> world Y axis, I have no problem.  If I DO NOT rotate this object,
> then scale it along local or world [Y], the object will return back
> to its original size as soon as I leave or change frame number.

If I follow this correctly, you are trying to size a flat plane,
which has NO Y dimension.  I assume this isn't really what you
meant (?)  Perhaps you could clarify, how is this plane oriented
before you try to scale/rotate it?  In which frame number are
you trying to do the scaling?  If you are scaling it in frame
30 (for example), and then setting a size bar for that frame,
it *should* still be its original size on frame 1.  That's the
way it's supposed to work.  You have just told Imagine to scale
the plane from it's original size in frame 1, to the size you
set in frame 30, tweening during frames 2 thru 29.
Don't forget to set a size AND alignment bar, if you're rotating
it as well.  Otherwise, Imagine will probably try to scale the
flat plane along the world Y, which will do nothing (assuming the
plane is oriented the 'default' way, like after you just 'added'
it.)

|          //    Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]>    \\           |
|       \\//   Scientific Artist / Artistic Scientist   \\//        |
|-"The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is |
|   comprehensible." -- A. Einstein                                 |
|-----"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, but it is  |
|       queerer than we can imagine." -- J.B.S. Haldane             |
|---------- "Three quarks for Muster Mark!" -- James Joyce          |



##

Subject: Some Effects and Questions...
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 16:07:04 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Hey.  I have a few questions about some effects I was thinking of in Imagine
2.0.  I've only had 2.0 for a few days and haven't played around with it
alot like I should have, but I will ask these questions anyway.
   1) I managed to see the TERMINATOR 2 preview of a videotape of TOTAL
RECALL, where the Terminator (Ah-nold) is put together and fleshed.  There's
a part where a laser beam scans the robot as a horizontal blue line that
rises from his feet to his head.  It's a cool effect (similar to the
beginning of Aliens) and I was wondering how it could be achieved without
actually getting a laser, fog machines, and so on.
   My inital guess for the SIMPLE effect (just a horizontal light that rises
across an object) was to have a shadow casting blue Conical or Cylindrical
light behind a plane with a narrow slit in it.  When traced, only the thin
beam would emerge and illuminate a narrow line across whatever was on the
other side of the plane.
   For the FULL (read DIFFICULT) effect, where the beam is actually visible,
as if it were passing through smoke or dust, I had considered animating a
transparency map on a fog object so it would appear to "swirl" and yet you
could still see through it.  I guess Steve Worley's Essense package would
have textures that would make the swirling a snap, but I dont know if I can
wait for it.  :)  Are there any textures now that would do this?  (waves,
camo-animated, distrub?)  And what happens if you make a FOG object BRIGHT?
   2) Okay, neat effect #2 isn't really an effect.  Does anyone have the
specs for a "letterboxed" imagine anim?  What would be the dimensions, and
aspect ratios for HAM lores and interlaced?  Would DPaint 4.1 and/or
Spectracolor load this size anim?
   3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video.  When the first spaceship is
shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and
you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect.  I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS
DONE.  If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks.

Thank you for your assistance.
   Paul J. Furio
   [e-mail]
   Shadowmar Grafix - The Next Generation In Computer Animations


##

Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 18:59:56 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

Believe it or not, my planes have a Y axis, the way I made them.  (Suppose
that was silly to make them that way, but I did)  These planes are visually
there, in scaled form, until I change frames.

I am aware of the position of the Size bar and its behavior, and that is
definately not the problem.  This is a very strange unexplainable problem
because objects that I first rotate 90 degrees on Z keep their modified
scaling.

I'm still working on it.  I'll let you know if I find a solution.

PJ


##

Subject: Thanks everyone; and the amazing solution!
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:07:47 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

Thanks to everyone who offered help for my problem with sizing a plane in
the Stage Editor.  Here is what's going on:

I have to scale by Local Axis reference.  For some reason scaling by the
World Axis will only work if the X,Y,&Z are by the same amount.

This is strange, I wonder why it is this way???

Thanks,
PJ Foley



##

Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions...
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 20:48:40 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Well, I'm not asure if I know all the answers, but I'll take a
guess...if anone else has any ideas about this stuff please post to the
lsit as I too would like to hear some other opinions.

>
>Hey.  I have a few questions about some effects I was thinking of in Imagine
>2.0.  I've only had 2.0 for a few days and haven't played around with it
>alot like I should have, but I will ask these questions anyway.
>   1) I managed to see the TERMINATOR 2 preview of a videotape of TOTAL
>RECALL, where the Terminator (Ah-nold) is put together and fleshed.  There's
>a part where a laser beam scans the robot as a horizontal blue line that
>rises from his feet to his head.  It's a cool effect (similar to the
>beginning of Aliens) and I was wondering how it could be achieved without
>actually getting a laser, fog machines, and so on.
>   My inital guess for the SIMPLE effect (just a horizontal light that rises
>across an object) was to have a shadow casting blue Conical or Cylindrical
>light behind a plane with a narrow slit in it.  When traced, only the thin
>beam would emerge and illuminate a narrow line across whatever was on the
>other side of the plane.
>   For the FULL (read DIFFICULT) effect, where the beam is actually visible,
>as if it were passing through smoke or dust, I had considered animating a
>transparency map on a fog object so it would appear to "swirl" and yet you
>could still see through it.  I guess Steve Worley's Essense package would
>have textures that would make the swirling a snap, but I dont know if I can
>wait for it.  :)  Are there any textures now that would do this?  (waves,
>camo-animated, distrub?)  And what happens if you make a FOG object BRIGHT?

    Yes, my guess would be that you would need to trace a plane with
a slit and blue light shining through it. You could make an object in
the detail editor that was the plane with a slit, and an axis away from
it with a cylindrical blue light setting that casted shadows.

    For the fog, you could just turn on global fog, but for the
swirling you might try a fog object (NOT BRIGHT) with a texture map such
as pastella morphing over time.


>   2) Okay, neat effect #2 isn't really an effect.  Does anyone have the
>specs for a "letterboxed" imagine anim?  What would be the dimensions, and
>aspect ratios for HAM lores and interlaced?  Would DPaint 4.1 and/or
>Spectracolor load this size anim?

    I don't have these, but for those using a firecracker I have a
Widescreen 768 and a Widescreen 1024 that i use with these settings:

    Widescreen 768 = 768x330 xAspect=6  yAspect=7   HIRES | LACE
    Widescreen 1024= 1024x330 xAspect=9 yAspect=14  HIRES | LACE


>   3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video.  When the first spaceship is
>shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and
>you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect.  I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS
>DONE.  If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks.
>

    I saw this and man was it an awesome effect.  The trees looked
real and I was questioning if the whole thing wasn't ray traced, but in
stead was some kind of genlocking trick.  Anyways, you could duplicate
this with just global fog, and moving your ship and light while tracing
with shadows.  When your light move and change in intensity, that should
produce the line coming through the trees.


>Thank you for your assistance.
>   Paul J. Furio
>   [e-mail]
>   Shadowmar Grafix - The Next Generation In Computer Animations
>
               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]


##

Subject: PP&S'040 and SCRAM ...
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:19:31 CST
From: [e-mail] (Isaac Guajardo Leal)

First of all this list is a Gold Mine, thanks to all involved to keep
it running and hope it will for a looonnnggg time ...

This is actualy my second post here and it's a question, hope that
someone know about it ...

I have an A3000/25 with a Progressive 040 board to keep Imagine
blazzzing ... but ... when I installed the 040 board it came with one
Page Mode ZIP to keep the A3000 from running in Static Column mode due
to a bug (?) on the Super DMAC and Denise chips which don't work
properly with a 040 and SCRAMs ... a note from PP&S is that as soon as
the NEW (?) chips are released by C= I just have to replace the original
SCRAM and voila Static Colum mode and a little more performance (hope!).
Now the question is, are those chips out yet ? Do someone have this
board (any 040 board?) and left the SCRAMs without problems on the long
run ? Any comments would be appreciated !

Also this is for Steve W. ... I WANT ESSCENCE (?) TOOOOOO !!!

Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo
[e-mail]
"Excuse my english, it's not my natural lenguage"

PD: From above ... yes, I also have to install the new chips  8-)
    before replacing the SCRAM !                              8-|




##

Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:11:42 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

> I am aware of the position of the Size bar and its behavior, and that is
> definately not the problem.  This is a very strange unexplainable problem
> because objects that I first rotate 90 degrees on Z keep their modified
> scaling.

For what it's worth, I see the same problem as PJ does.  If I go into
the stage editor, and resize an object, it stays that way as long as
I'm still in the stage editor.  But if I leave and re-enter (after
saving), the object will spring back to its original size.  It is
_very_ annoying, because I used to use this feature a lot in 1.1.
It seems to have broken in 2.0 (along with several other things).

BTW, regarding the message I sent around about system crashes
with Imagine 2.0, I called Impulse about it.  They blamed it
on my 68040 card - but PP&S blames it on Imagine.  In
the meantime, I am stuck with a very expensive piece of s/w which
crashes my machine every 5 minutes. :-(  I tend to believe PP&S,
because I have not seen 68040 related problems with _any_ other
application or PD software.  In any case, I'm getting a might
unhappy - it makes Imagine dratted near unusable for even still
frame rendering, and completely unusuable for creating animations
(since I get at most 3 or 4 frames before a crash).

(Impluse's attitude for tech support doesn't come across very well
either.  Their attitude was "users don't understand our software
anyway, so what good does it do for us to try to help?"  The tech
support guy said that to me in almost that many words.  He wasn't
talking about me specifically, but it still comes across as
very unprofessional.)

   - steve


##

Subject: Fracture and merge??
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 22:31:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Hello Imagineers,

I am sure this question has been answered numerous times but since I have
been a member of the list I have never seen it.

What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor?  I have
been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two
mystery commands had something to do with Split.

Also on a side note.  Has anyone ever played with Vertex?  I have found it
to be a fairly powerfull modeller.  Just curious to know what everyone else
thinks of it.  For example how does it compare to LW modeller?  I have never
used it but I hear it is fairly easy.

Ciao!

Joe Cotellese


##

Subject: Glow effect
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 23:47:21 EDT
From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>

First off many thanks to dave for getting me back on this
list. It seems there were some troubles with my address.
and apologies to all who suffered the wrath of my many bounces.

Here's a qustion thats probably asked often. How can I create
a _glow_ in Imagine. Is it some kind of fog trick? As a point
of reference, I'm trying to create the glow seen around the
top of the pyramid as seen on the back of a dollar bill. I
thought about taking a concentric copy of the pyramid top,
making it a fog object and sending light at it. This might create
a haze as opposed to the desired glow. It might also be nice
to have the glow _shimmer_. Is this possible via a morphing
texture or something??. thanks in advance.

Steve Lombardi
[e-mail]


##

Subject: sunsets
Date:     Tue, 9 Jun 1992 19:35:00 -0400
From: troy%torsqnt![e-mail] (Troy Hacker)

Hi all,

I'm trying to get a realistic sunset.  My scene contains a ship on the ocean at sunset.  The lighting in the scene is fine.  Everything looks real except for the sun.  The sun is a sphere and has the attribute of a light source.  This gave me a orange ball that was shaded on one side.  I tried changing the attribute to bright which corrected the shading problem, but the one thing that still remains is that the sun has very hard edges.

I've tried to use fog to soften them but no such luck.  Any ideas???


Thanks,

Troy




##

Subject: Questions
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 00:06:09 PST
From: [e-mail] (Kenny Sequeira)

Here are a few questions I have about Imagine 2.0.


I'm  Having trouble with the brick texture on a infinite plane.  The bricks
never seem to ome out correctly especially at the horzion.  I can get the
texture to work ok if I use a plane of a set size.

If I have a set of objects grouped together and use the split Function
on any object Imagine will not allow me to pick most of the objects they
just sit there and it does not mater what pick mode your in.  To get around
this before I do a split on any object I always un-group.  This not a big
problem just a minor inconvenience.

Is it a copyright violation to use Imagine screen shots in a program or
tutioral. just wondering.

One last questin, why can you lock the pallete in Imagine's RGBN format
but not in IFF format when creating anims.

Thanks
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions...
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 09:40:08 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>    3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video.  When the first spaceship is
> shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and
> you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect.  I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS
> DONE.  If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks.

This is one of several features that are completely unique to LightWave.
LightWave allows complete control over object edge transparency. This
allows very simple and speedy simulation of glows and many other effects.
Besides light beams it can be used for rocket exhausts, flames, neon,
planetary atmosphere, etc, etc.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re: Fracture and merge??
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 10:44:15 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] asks:
> What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor?  I have
> been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two
> mystery commands had something to do with Split.

FRACTURE inserts a new point midway between the end-points of an edge.  It
should also properly add faces.  This allows you to increase the complexity
of objects by giving you more points to create detail with.
    ex: Select several edges and then FRACTURE them.

MERGE removes duplicate points and edges that resulted from JOIN or SPLIT.
Processing complex objects requires MUCH MUCH longer than simpler ones
because the algorithm is of O(n^2) complexity.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann     "If I went around calling myself emperor just because
 ( )  [e-mail]  some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd
 Seeking virtual memory   put me away!"         -- Monty Python's "Holy Grail"


##

Subject: Re:  Some Effects and Questions...
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 10:14:16 -0500
From: [e-mail] (PJ Foley)

I can help you with one thing:  Letterbox settings.  I use the same widescreen
proportions as T2 used.  I found the actual resolution in a magazine called
NewMedia (well, it was the resolution used for the scene where LA gets
nuked.  They used a *gulp* MacIntosh for some of the effects there).
I divided the resolution by 2 so it would fit on an Amiga screen (perfectly),
and ended up with 736x339; use the same aspect ratio as a High-res interlace
screen, 6:7(???).

DPaint loads these fine, just pull the screen down so it's centered, and
you're ready to go!

I use this with DCTV, and get great results.  The anim also speeds up because
less of the screen is being updated (aprox 2/3).

Hope this helps!

PJ
Kinetic Dreams


##

Subject: Re: Fracture and merge??
Date:     Tue, 16 Jun 1992 08:56:44 -0400
From: John J Humpal <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] writes:
>
> Hello Imagineers,
>
> What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor?  I have
> been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two
> mystery commands had something to do with Split.
>
    Merge will join multiple points/edges that share the same space
into a single point/edge.  It is useful when you have joined objects which
have common points or edges.  Fracture operates on edges and faces.  It
will split a single edge into 2 edges, a single face into 4 faces.  Great
for adding detail.  Play with them a little to get a feel for them.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer



##

Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions...
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 15:45:13 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

>
>
>     Well, I'm not asure if I know all the answers, but I'll take a
> guess...if anone else has any ideas about this stuff please post to the
> lsit as I too would like to hear some other opinions.
>
>
>                Michael Comet
>                [e-mail]


The way I made a flat laser beam scan something, was to make a flat plane,
and aply the fog effect to it.  Make the plane have some thinkness, not
much, and make it a light, and add the pastella texture to the whole thing.
It worked pretty good to (at least in HAM).  I don't think making a small
slit in a plane with a blue light behind it will work, but I could be wrong.
TTYSS.


--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: marble
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 8:44:18 EDT
From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>

Howdy,
Does anyone know of a good set of attributes for
creating Marble? I have played around with variations
of the wood texture but can''t get the right look for marble.

As an alternative I suppose I could map a brush but wanted
to avoid this for morphing's sake. Is there an ftp site
with a good slab of marble around?

As I was writing this I just thought about layering a couple
of wood textures on the same object to randomize the pattern
a bit. This may help, but any other input is appreciated. thanks.

--
Steve Lombardi
[e-mail]


##

Subject: SpaceStation on hubcap
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 16:48:47 MET DST
From: Markus Stipp <[e-mail]>

Hello !

I'm searching for a spacestation for Imagine. I found the space_station.readme
file on hubcap.clemson.edu but the object wasn't there. Can please
somebody reupload it ? Or are there any other ftp-sites where this object
can be found ?

Thank you...

--

   ...Markus Stipp !!   ([e-mail])


##

Subject: Suggestions for Imagine 3.0
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 17:31:56 MET DST
From: Markus Stipp <[e-mail]>

Hi,

after working a while with Imagine 2.0 I have found a few things I'm
missing in this great program. I will send this msg via smail to Impulse, too.

Global things:
--------------

 - New "Scanline with Shadows" mode. This would be very nice because in most
   cases scanline-pictures are only missing shadows to be "perfect"

 - DCTV support with a 3- and 4-bit switch.

 - An ARexx-Interface would be nice. With this it would be possible to
   control all functions of Imagine by external programs.

 - Get rid of these awful shadowed menues and make the 3D-look more
   Style-Guide conform.

 - In all 3D-Editors it would be nice if you could align the 3 views to
   an objects axis and not only to the world axis like now. This would make
   it much easier to position objects in the stage-editor exactly.

 - Make the animations Time-relative and let the user choose how many frames
   the animations should take for a period of time. So it's easier to stretch
   an animation over more or less pictures.

Detail-Editor:
--------------

 - Bug: Checkmark in "Grid Size"-menu. This is only looking strange.

 - Different grid sizes for all axes. This means I want to make the grid
   20 in x-direction, 30 in y-direction and 15 in z-direction.

 - Material Database. I want to create materials and assing them later to
   the objects. If I have 20 objects with the same material and I want to
   change it I only have to change the material once. In Imagine 2.0 I have
   to change the attributes for all 20 objects.

 - Material Mapping. With the material database material mapping would be
   possible. Just create a 16 color Image and assign a material to each color.
   Now map this material-map on an object and you can create incredible
   effects (like bright windows on a spaceship etc.).

 - Pick objects with same material function

 - Better Skin-function. It should be possible to create a skin with objects
   that don't have the same number of points.

 - Create spline-paths out of simple line-objects. Just add an axis, add lines
   with add lines mode and select "Object to path" function and ready is the
   spline-path. I think this would be much easier for complex paths than
   editing a path with its axes.

 - Magnetism in Pick Points-mode. This means that only points which are picked
   are modified with magnetism. The first picked point should be the
   drag-point.

 - New Split-function. This new function should not remove any faces in the
   splitted object but should copy the points which are missing for this faces.
   The current split function is IMHO unuseful because it "trashes" the object.

 - PLEASE give us a cube primitive !!!!

Cycle Editor:
-------------

 - draw the wireframe of the objects on keypress in all 3 views.

 - Better method to select points in the cycle editor. It would be nice if
   the first click on one object would only activate it and then a keypress
   activates the mode (pivot, move etc.).

 - optional spline-interpolation between keyframes

Stage Editor:
-------------

 - Pick All function !

 - optional Spline-interpolation in all tweenings.

 - Pick Objects-mode. Just for modifying grouped objects even in the stage
   editor.

Action Editor:
--------------

 - A possibility to move Objects on their "time-axis"

Project Editor:
---------------

 - Put antialias-threshold and resolve-depth into the project editor and use
   the values from the preferences only as default-values for each project.

 - A possibility to start the rendering from CLI !

 - AnimOPT5 player.


Ok, so much for now. I hope a few features of the above would be implemented
in the next Imagine version.

--

   ...Markus Stipp !!   ([e-mail])


##

Subject: repeat altitude maps
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 10:49:13 CST
From: Jeff Niebergall <[e-mail]>

I am having trouble getting an altitude map to repeat properly.
The object is a castle wall with stonework which I have a
repeatable color map that works perfectly. The problem is if I
convert the same colormap to a 16 color b/w (in AdPro or
IMageMaster)and then use it as an altitude map I get seam lines
in the repeat. Could it be that the grey scale conversion is
changing the values enough that the edges no longer match up? I
tried loading the altitude map as a brush in DPaint and
repeating it and there it looks perfect. Any ideas what the
problem is?

Thanks, Jeff   [e-mail]


--


##

Subject: Imagine 3.0 (!) suggestions
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 14:50:46 -0700
From: Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]>

>  - DCTV support with a 3- and 4-bit switch.

Hear hear!  This is crucial.  Imagine 2.0 has DCTV support, but
I still end up using ADAM to convert the frames to 3-plane, and
pack them into an ANIM5.


> - Get rid of these awful shadowed menues and make the 3D-look
>  more Style-Guide conform.

The shading on the menus is O.K, not too bad.  Conforming to
the style-guide wouldn't do much for me, save using [RETURN]
to select "OK" on some requesters.  Of course, the whole
menu interface could stand to be totally redone.  They should
just organize it better, group similar functions together.
Perhaps they could even have Imagine intelligently remove
menu items that I have assigned to gadgets or F-keys with
the Preferences editor.  That would reduce the clutter in
a good way.


> - Better Skin-function. It should be possible to create a skin with
> objects that don't have the same number of points.

Ditto that.
I also want *morphing* with objects without the same number
of points!!!!


> - New Split-function. This new function should not remove
> any faces in the splitted object ...

Hear hear!


> - PLEASE give us a cube primitive !!!!

OK, here ya go:

begin 777 RAM:Cube.lha
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
end

Good 'nuff?


>  - optional spline-interpolation in all tweenings.

This is what Imagine *desperately* needs!  I want to be able
to set keyframes (in Stage or Cycle) and have Imagine apply
spline-based motion interpolation to it.  "Just like
Lightwave."


> Action Editor:
> --------------
>
>  - A possibility to move Objects on their "time-axis"

I think the whole Action editor needs work.  We should be
able to cut&paste sections, as well as grab the end/begin
points of the time-bars and drag them.  We all have mice
attached to our Amigas, right?

There are many things Impulse got right with Imagine, and
many things that need work.

-----------                                                       //
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Graphics/Animation Designer \\//
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - A. Einstein


##

Subject: repeating Altitude Maps
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 11:59:36 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Jeff Niebergall asks why he gets seams when he repeats altitude maps.

The answer is that it is a bug in Imagine. It's an understandable one,
though. Basically, when Imagine wants to apply the altitude map, it
has to take a DIRIVATIVE of the brush intensity. This is just a fancy name
for figuring out how steep the intensity gradient is. To do this, it has
to look at a pixel's neighbors to see how the intensity is changing.

If the pixel intensity is 40, how is the object's surface supposed to
tilt? (You can't say!) But if you know the NEXT pixel is 50, you can say
"Ah, if it's 40 here and 50 here, it must be at this rate of change." and
you can shade away. (actually you need yet another neighbor, too: one for
X and one for Y.)

So altitude mapping makes Imagine looks at a pixel's neighbors. But what if
you're at the very edge of the brushmap? It HAS no neighbor. So you can't
figure out the slope, and you can't add the altitude. This is true only for
a one-pixel-wide band around the outside.

It looks like for TILED maps, Imagine isn't being smart and realizing that
a pixel's neighbor is actually "wrapped around" to the other side. Hence,
those boundary pixels aren't "altituded" and you see the seam.

How to get around this? Well, you can't really. A bigger brushmap will make
the seam thinner, and if you make it big enough it might be unnoticable.
This is a bad solution, but it's the only one I can think of. (Other than
asking Impulse to fix the bug).

Hope this helps...

-Steve


##

Subject: Re: marble
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 18:58:46 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Howdy,
>Does anyone know of a good set of attributes for
>creating Marble? I have played around with variations
>of the wood texture but can''t get the right look for marble.
>

    I would wait until these new ESSENCE textures come out.  Until
then getting marble out of the wood texture proably won't work.  Or if
you do, probably won't look that great.

>As an alternative I suppose I could map a brush but wanted
>to avoid this for morphing's sake. Is there an ftp site
>with a good slab of marble around?
>

    I have uploaded several wrap (IFF) to hubcap.clemson.edu .  I
think they are in the brushmaps directory under Imagine.  There are both
24 bit and HAM versions.  The fact is, you can use either, but if you
are limited in ram, or are not doing 24 bit, the ham might save some
time and space.

>
>--
>Steve Lombardi
>[e-mail]
>
>

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Imagine rendering engine
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 13:18:56 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Serge Ah Hee)

Good day to all!
        A couple months back, a friend received a newsletter from Impulse. They briefly mentioned a couple of blurbs about porting the rendering engine
onto hardware. Has anybody heard anything about this?

        I've also been trying to make big anims in DCTV. How can I get
optimum speed at full screen size? I'm running on a A3000, 6megs, 52meg Quantum.
Getting full video is a bit out of my budget. Hard drive is to slow to play anims while it loads. Any suggestions?


##

Subject: Articles from this mailing list
Date:     Thu, 18 Jun 92 22:31:32 +0200
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

Hi fellow-tracers,

I want to start a disk-based magazin and wondered if there are
any copyrights I must consider when Iublish information
given through this mailing list.

Any information on this item appreciated.


Hannes

Just render on and on and on ......




##

Subject: Wishlist for Imagine
Date:     Thu, 18 Jun 92 22:34:52 +0200
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

Hi everybody around the brushmapped sphere called earth :)

I read a lot of wishlist and suggestions for Imagine V3.0.
How about collecting these important information on a sperate
list like imagine_wish or something.
This could be a permanent source for the people at Impulse.

Any views on this  ???

Hannes

P.S.: I imagine therefor I am.





##

Subject: Re: Articles from this mailing list
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 18:46:51 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Hannes Heckner writes:

>Hi fellow-tracers,
>
>I want to start a disk-based magazin and wondered if there are
>any copyrights I must consider when Iublish information
>given through this mailing list.
>
>Any information on this item appreciated.

>Hannes

>Just render on and on and on ......


Hannes, as we state in the Imagine Mailing List Guide, all information
posted to the Imagine Mailing List is public domain. All that is
requested is that you post the origin of the information and that you
credit the original poster with the information you quote.

If you DID want to help out though  ;-)   you could include information
regarding [e-mail]
subscription address. The more Imagine-ations we have on the List,
the more rich all of our knowledge will become.

Good luck on your disk magazine.


Dave Wickard        [phone]        "'On your deathbed, you will receive
[e-mail]                         total consciousness'....so I got
[e-mail]                 that going for me."  -Bill Murray


##

Subject: Get GREAT resolution from Imagine.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 17:28:26 EST
From: [e-mail] (Hannibal Lecter)

    Hi,

    I use Imagine 1.0 (Arrgh!) on an Amiga 3000, I also happen to
    own a powerful IBM. The IBM has a super VGA card (1 MEG Tseng).

    How can this help you?

    Well... If you set Imagine to render to 24-bit, in a resolution
    of 1024x768 and save the file in IFF-24, convert it to JPEG,
    null-modem the image to the IBM, unjpeg it to GIF in 1024x768 in
    256 colours then BANG! you have an image that looks about
    100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times
    better than one in HAM. Cool?

    Anyone that is more interested, I have written a live-wire
    transfer from IFF-24 to GIF. If you want it, just mail me.

    ok?

    -Ric

    -Remember when Z80 code had to be assembled with tables instead
     of using an assembler... Imagine having to code IMAGINE this
     way :)



##

Subject: re:playing large DCTV anims
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 08:33:58 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

3 bit planes verses 4 makes a very noticable difference in playback
speed also I have been finding out that the program used to playback
the animation can really affect the speed as well.
(Anyone know what players work the fastest?)
It isn't real great but with a good VCR you can play sections of your
animation and pause the VCR while you load in the next section.  This
just requires some planned still sections to your animation so you can
make the pause more "seamless".
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Subject: Re: repeating Altitude Maps
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 17:05:42 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Steve Worley writes:
> Basically, when Imagine wants to apply the altitude map, it
> has to take a DIRIVATIVE of the brush intensity.
                ^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, for shame!!! An MIT *Physics* grad mispelling derivative! What has the
world come to?! What would SRI think? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: demo pic
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 13:53:43 PDT
From: [e-mail]

For those of you who asked me for Essence demo pics, I uploaded a simple
one to Hubcap.clemson.edu yesterday. It is called "pillars.lzh" and
shows off two textures: veined marble and fractal bumps.

Looks promising for release in 3 weeks: manual is almost done! :-)
65 textures:


Altitude textures
  Raised square mesh
  Raised hexagon mesh
  Diamonddeck nonslip studs
  Fractal bumps (for everything from asteroids to concrete!)
  Flatten (cartoon shading)

Bricks and Checks
  Radial and cylindrical checks (Amiga Boing ball!)
  Cylindrical bricks (wishing wells or walkways)

Fractal Noise
  Turbulent or smooth
  1,2,and 4 color versions
  Over 20 variations!
  Fully animated for swirling clouds or smoke.

Miscellaneous
  Mandelbrot (infinite detail!)
  Marble (finally!)
  Polkadots
  Fractal tree bark
  Spirals and swirls (Fractal versions, too)

Tilings
  Hexagons
  Floortile
  Stripes
  Triangles

Transitions
  Linear, band, cylindrical, ring, spherical, shell.
  Smooth or fractally turbulent versions (animated, of course)

Utility
  Solid color
  Color swapping
  Hue rotation


Some of these things are a lot more exciting than they sound: the
transitions especially. You can make an animated solar corona or
Saturn's rings for Jupiter's atmosphere bands with the cylindrical and
spherical turbulent textures... :-)

Hey, hey, I know, I'm biased. But so what. :-) I'll be sending out
propaganda to people in the mail in about a week and a half: if you want some
drop me your address. (If you bought my book from me directly, you'll get
it anyway... :-) :-)  )

List price is $79.95, but there will be a (significant) discount to you
guys.

Any questions? Fire away. I'll upload some better demo pix to hubcap
ASAP.

-Steve
[e-mail]

Gosh these are fun! :-)


##

Subject: A3000+PP&S'040 and SCRAM -> Mistake!
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 15:27:53 CST
From: [e-mail] (Isaac Guajardo Leal)

Errors to:[e-mail]

Regarding the question I made about using Static Column mode in an A3000
with a Progressive 040 board. I mentioned the SuperDMAC and also DENISE
by mistake, it should have been RAMSEY which is the one that handles the
Static Column mode.

What PP&S states is that those two chips, RAMSEY and SuperDMAC, are going
to be upgraded by Commodore so the '040 boards can work properly using
SCRAMS and Static Column mode enabled.

Do someone know if the chips have been upgraded ?, is someone using an
A3000 with a PP&S'040 and SCRAMS/Static Column mode enabled ?.

Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience (?) ...

Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo
[e-mail]
"The one who dies with the most toys wins!"

(Excuse my english, it's not my natural lenguage)



##

Subject: Re: Imagine v.s. Caligari & Flame-objectz
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 07:15:20 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> writes:

>[stuff deleted]
>Caligari *does* have a nice interface, which *can* make your
>work faster and easier than Imagine.  But a few things you
>should be aware of: (I just got on this list today, so pardon
>me if you've heard this before) Caligari does *not* multitask,
>and it does not support 24-bit files (the consumer version
>anyway), meaning it does not render in 24-bit, and it does
>not support 24-bit texture/image maps.  The full-on Broadcast
>version *does*, but it's like $2000+, and I think you were
>interested in the ~$250 version, right?

Caligari2's BRenderer is 32 bit however it does not presently support
24 bit output (DCTV, Ham, Ham-e only). Caligari2 *does* support 24bit
/32bit texture/image maps, though.


>-----------                                                       //
>Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Graphics/Animation Designer \\//

-stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: Steve's book
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 92 20:32:08 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Kudos to Mr Worley for his wonderful book on Imagine.  I have received it
only 4 hours ago and already I have been inspired to new levels of
creativity (Probably levels than I have computer!).  If Essence is 1/2 as
well put together as this book is then we should all consider ourselves
very lucky indeed.

Thanks,
-Joe


##

Subject: image mapping
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 92 20:15:27 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

i have a question concerning image mapping-in imagine, Lightwave,etc.

this may seem like a basic, easy concept, but hey, i just want it to look good
:-)

if you draw a geometric pattern in Dpaint, i.e. a grid, you can either
a. make it look like it is an actual 4x4 grid,
b. use the coordinates to make it actually a 4 pixel by 4 pixel grid
  without it appearing like a square grid on the screen (rectangular
pixels, etc...)

so how does lightwave, et al, map onto, say, a square plane ? which of the
above methods will actually map an accurate representation ?
and how does Pixel 3D take a bitmap and convert it correctly, given the
"inaccuracy" of the bit map pixels being rectangular and not ssquare ?

i know i am just  missing something basic and simple, but can someone
please explain how i can accurately (very accurately, i am an architect:-) )
use paint programs to design image maps accurately ? thanks in advance...

and if i can understand this, then i will reread steves description of the
amazing basketball wrap in his book, Understanding Imagine 2.0 (plug!)

kevin
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Caligari & 24bit
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 00:28:44 -0700
From: Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]>

> Caligari2's BRenderer is 32 bit however it does not presently support
> 24 bit output (DCTV, Ham, Ham-e only). Caligari2 *does* support 24bit
> /32bit texture/image maps, though.
>
> -stephen

I stand corrected.  Wonder where I got that idea.....

-----------                                                       //
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Graphics/Animation Designer \\//


##

Subject: Imagine.3 requests
Date: 21 Jun 92 23:36 -0700
From: Andrew Niemann <[e-mail]>

Just to add my two cents worth to Imagine.3 requests :

-soft edged lights

-soft edged shadows (varying, like the real thing)

-editing all parameters in 3d ala Caligari

-various shading options, not just phong

-radiosity ?

andy





##

Subject: Re: image mapping
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 2:32:54 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

> i know i am just  missing something basic and simple, but can someone
> please explain how i can accurately (very accurately, i am an architect:-) )
> use paint programs to design image maps accurately ? thanks in advance...
>
Maybe you should try using Radiance. It is one of the most accurate lighting
simulators out there that architects use. There is a Radiance Mailing list
available. If interested, post in comp.graphics for the address.

> kevin
> [e-mail]
>
Juan Trevino
[e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: image mapping
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 13:14:22 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Kevin Kodama writes:
> if you draw a geometric pattern in Dpaint, i.e. a grid, you can either
> a. make it look like it is an actual 4x4 grid,
> b. use the coordinates to make it actually a 4 pixel by 4 pixel grid
>   without it appearing like a square grid on the screen (rectangular
> pixels, etc...)
> so how does lightwave, map onto, say, a square plane ? which of the
> above methods will actually map an accurate representation ?

No matter what you do in DPaint, it is LightWave that will control the
actual size/aspect ratio. If you create a DPaint image that is 100 pixels
by 100 pixels and use it as a planar LightWave image map, it is the texture
size that will determine the pixel mapping. If you specify a texture size
of 10 x 10 meters, then every image pixel will equate to a square of 0.1
meters on a side or: texture size / image size = meters/pixel for each axis.
Therefore a 1:1 ratio of texture size to image size will produce a square
grid. Since the Amiga uses non-square pixels, the LightWave rendering
of this square will not likely use the same number of pixels in the X
direction as it does in the Y, but it will appear square.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: radiance
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 21:43:57 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

juan trevino writes:
>maybe you should try using Radiance...
actually, greg ward, the guy who wrote radiance, is up at Berkeley labs,
and used to hang around (maybe still does :-))on campus where i
currently teach ! radiance is used at Cal somewhat, especially by the
lighting guys, but it is not yet a "quick and easy" :-) package for
the everyday architect. The results, however can be incredible-
kevin
[e-mail]


##

Subject: SeaLife.lha
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 01:38:23 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Denton)


    FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive <in /amiga/incoming/pics/guardian/>
and grab my latest raytrace,
      Sealife.lha   <Its a 768X482 jpeg and a 384X482 ham version in one file>
                                                Mail me if you like it!!!

                                                 Andrew Denton <AHD>


##

Subject: Lighting in Imagine
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 13:09:47 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

Well, after about 4 months of learning I feel I know my way around
imagine pretty well now (Thank you Mr Worley!)
But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the
renderer.  Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this...
"fake".  I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage.
what are typical lighting settings?  what type of lights do you use?
How many lights?
Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..)
I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input
from you wizards will help me out 8-)

In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned
(sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other
times I get very uneven light.  Things seem to go from specular
highlight to black with no color.
Also,... I render to 24 bit and convert to DCTV  if that helps..

Thanks...
Adam B



##

Subject: Re:  Lighting in Imagine
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 13:03:00 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Cazabon--Film Maker=)

I think I know your problem...'flat' objects are because of a lighting problem
as you guessed...flatness comes from even illumination from the front.  A
bright light near your camera will have this effect (much like the lights
mounted on top of a TV newscam when they go out for on-the-spot interviews at
night...everyone looks flat and washed out).

Another reason could be you are not using shadow generation in trace mode...
shadows add greatly to the effect of 3-D.  If you are using more than one light,
make sure they are ALL in shadow mode for maximum effect (this lengthens
trace time, though).

I would suggest you get a good basic book on photography or filmmaking to learn
about the way lights behave in real life...this will help immensely in using
Imagine, because the lighting situations are practically identical.  In the
meantime, a few hints:

Basic two-light setup:

1)  Your main or key light...make this bright.  For a sunny day or well-lit
room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500 or so.  This should
be positioned to one side of the object and in front of it (relative to the camera)
if you want to be able to make out the surface of the object.  It should also
probably be higher than the object (for anything except space scenes, shadows should
fall downward from the main light...if they go up, it looks odd).  45 degrees in
front of the object and 40 to 60 degrees elevation is a good rule of thumb.

2)  Your fill light...spherical, shadowcasting (if you can afford the additional
trace times), RGB about 150,150,150 to 200,200,200.  This will give you pretty
decent fill in your main shadows.  If you want the shadows a little more pronounced,
drop this light to 100,100,100 or even a little less.  Place this one on the opposite
side of the object, perhaps 30 to 60 degrees away from the camera.  It can be a little
in front, a little behind...make sure it is at a different elevation than the
key light.

3)  Use a SMALL amount of ambient light to fill in the areas not hit by either of
the main lights.  I use 10,10,10 in all my renderings.


If you get a good book, it will go into much more detail than this, detailing
advanced 2-light setups, 3, 4, 5, and more lights, and specialty lights like
'kickers' or spots.  If you can't find what you need in a local bookstore
under photography, try a University or College bookstore, or an art store or
photography store.


--Chuck Cazabon, [e-mail]
* alternate address:  [e-mail]
* In the immortal words of JFK..."I am a jelly donut!"
I went to Israel on holiday, and all I got was this lousy gunshot wound.


##

Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 17:01:32 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Well, after about 4 months of learning I feel I know my way around
>imagine pretty well now (Thank you Mr Worley!)
>But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the
>renderer.  Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this...
>"fake".  I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage.
>what are typical lighting settings?  what type of lights do you use?
>How many lights?
>Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..)
>I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input
>from you wizards will help me out 8-)
>
>In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned
>(sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other
>times I get very uneven light.  Things seem to go from specular
>highlight to black with no color.
>Also,... I render to 24 bit and convert to DCTV  if that helps..
>
>Thanks...
>Adam B
>
>
>

    To help you out I stumbled across this in one of my Dad's video
magazines:

    Magazine: Videomaker
          June 1992, Volume VI, Number 12.
          Read Article on Page 46 named "Bright Ideas" by Cliff
Roth.

    Basically, the article describes basic lighting techniques for
real world video, but I found it works great in Imagine too!  I did a
test rendering of a simple chrome sphere on a checkerd ground (yea I
know, real original!) 3 different ways,  my way with one light, and then
adding the way the article said to.  There was a BIG improvement in the
overall picture quality with the articles method.

    To sum:  Basically there are 3 lights,

        1]  The Key light - place 45 degress from you subject on
both the left/right and up/down axis. (that is 45 degress
horizontally off center, and 45 degress vertically off center).

        should illumnate one side of your subject more than the
other side.  You may want to use a spotlight type light for this.

        2]The Fill Light.   Put this light at around half the
Key light's intensity.  The fill light usually goes about 45 degrees
from teh object horizintall and vertically, but on the opposite side of
the key light.

        Should soften dark shadows.

        3] The BackLight.  Highlights the top of the object
enabling highlights on the object, and differentiating between the
background and the object.

        It is placed behind and High above the target, pointin
down and slightly forward.


    It goes on to say that this is normally used for talk shows,
news deks, etc....but for other things you need to take other aspects
into consideration.

    For example, if your are trying to get light coming in from a
window, and it is set during day time, the Key Light should come in from
outside the window.

    Hope this helps.  May want to check out the article.  Has some
nice diagrams and stuff.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: Sealife.lha
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 18:55:34 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Aragorn J Mallory)

[e-mail] writes:

  FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive <in /amiga/incoming/pics/guardian/>
and grab my latest raytrace,
      Sealife.lha   <Its a 768X482 jpeg and a 384X482 ham version in one file>
                                                Mail me if you like it!!!

                                                 Andrew Denton <AHD>

Great I went to get it and could not find the picture!  Were is it?
pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/pics  ???

Aragorn.

I Imagine, Therefor I am! ---([e-mail])


##

Subject: SeaLife.lha
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 01:38:23 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Denton)


    FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive <in /amiga/incoming/pics/guardian/>
and grab my latest raytrace,
      Sealife.lha   <Its a 768X482 jpeg and a 384X482 ham version in one file>
                                                Mail me if you like it!!!

                                                 Andrew Denton <AHD>


##

Subject: Re:  Lighting in Imagine
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 02:18:52 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!cazabon (Chuck Cazabon--Film Maker=) writes:

> I think I know your problem...'flat' objects are because of a lighting proble
> as you guessed...flatness comes from even illumination from the front.  A
> bright light near your camera will have this effect (much like the lights
> mounted on top of a TV newscam when they go out for on-the-spot interviews at
> night...everyone looks flat and washed out).

Lighting is an art in itself.  It will probably take the typical user
another year or 2 just to figure out lighting of still scenes much
less animated scenes for a realistic look..even for an artsy look!

> Another reason could be you are not using shadow generation in trace mode...
> shadows add greatly to the effect of 3-D.  If you are using more than one lig
> make sure they are ALL in shadow mode for maximum effect (this lengthens
> trace time, though).

Well, setting the lights to cast shadows helps in many instances but
there are certainly times when you don't want certain lights to cast
shadows.  When you use multiple lights, the control of shadow casting
becomes a bit more crucial.  You don't want to arbitrarily turn
shadow casting on in all circumstances.

> I would suggest you get a good basic book on photography or filmmaking to lea
> about the way lights behave in real life...this will help immensely in using
> Imagine, because the lighting situations are practically identical.  In the
> meantime, a few hints:

Getting a good lighting for film book will help but playing around
with simple objects (spheres and such) and different light settings
along with reading the books will help the most.

> Basic two-light setup:
>
> 1)  Your main or key light...make this bright.  For a sunny day or well-lit
> room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500 or so.  This shou
> be positioned to one side of the object and in front of it (relative to the c
> if you want to be able to make out the surface of the object.  It should also
> probably be higher than the object (for anything except space scenes, shadows
> fall downward from the main light...if they go up, it looks odd).  45 degrees
> front of the object and 40 to 60 degrees elevation is a good rule of thumb.
>
> 2)  Your fill light...spherical, shadowcasting (if you can afford the additio
> trace times), RGB about 150,150,150 to 200,200,200.  This will give you prett
> decent fill in your main shadows.  If you want the shadows a little more pron
> drop this light to 100,100,100 or even a little less.  Place this one on the
> side of the object, perhaps 30 to 60 degrees away from the camera.  It can be
> in front, a little behind...make sure it is at a different elevation than the
> key light.
>
> 3)  Use a SMALL amount of ambient light to fill in the areas not hit by eithe
> the main lights.  I use 10,10,10 in all my renderings.

In alot of cases you can omit the fill light in front of the object
and use it behind and either above or below the object to get some
highlights on your objects.  Alot of the work I do requires sheens on
bevels and such and lights to the sides or top/bottom and a little
above gives the objects more definition.  In photography it would be
called a "hair" light.  Instead of the fill light you can get away
with uping the ambient light to something like 25,25,25..sometimes
more depending on the look you are trying to acheive.

> If you get a good book, it will go into much more detail than this, detailing
> advanced 2-light setups, 3, 4, 5, and more lights, and specialty lights like
> 'kickers' or spots.  If you can't find what you need in a local bookstore
> under photography, try a University or College bookstore, or an art store or
> photography store.

Most basic lighting is exactly as Chuck described but most basic
lighting really starts with 3 lights (key, fill, hair).  In most
cases however, there is also a background light so your basic setup
usually is a 4 light setup.  From there on, it's all playing around
with spots here and there.  Of course this is purely in a portraiture
sense.

When trying to portray a totally real scene, you must consider the
actual sources of light and try to emulate them the best you can with
the tools you have.  Luckily Imagine has some *very* flexable lights.

The ability to make an object into a light source is great.  You can
create large softlights this way!

But lighting for 3D will take some time to figure out.  It's not
going to happen in the same type of timeframe as it took to learn how
to work Imagine.  It will probably take much longer than that as it
is a creativity type thing you are trying to learn.  You must first
learn the basics and then experiment from there.  Once you have a
good grasp of the basics of lighting for 3D, you will be well
prepared to create and render scenes that come out the way you expect
them to. <grin>

As a side note, RayTracers are not really well suited for realistic
light rendering.  To get a more realistic lighting model, you would
have to use some amount of Radiosity in your rendering.

Ray tracing can produce some great images as long as the objects in
the images contain shiny or transparent surfaces.  However, real
environments contain a large amount of diffuse surfaces such as
painted walls, carpets, computers, drapes, etc.  Ray tracing is not
particularly good at simulating these types of surfaces.

Radiosity on the other hand IS very good at simulating diffuse
objects but quite terrible with shiny or transparent
objects/surfaces.  With radiosity, the effect of diffuse lighting is
that objects that do not receive *direct* lighting can be illuminated
by the lit objects near them.  Sort of like if you point your desk
lamp at a white card and then move the white card around.  The walls
and objects in your room are lit by the reflection (diffuse indirect)
light bouncing off the white card.  Ray tracing can not do this, or,
if it can, it would take an inordinate amount of time to render a
single frame.

The best of both worlds is a renderer that can do both radiosity and
ray tracing.  However, there are not (to my knowledge) any user
friendly 3D packages utilizing radiosity and ray-tracing at this
point in time.

Radiance does both but the user interface isn't. <grin>

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re:  Lighting in Imagine
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:49:14 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

In a previous article [e-mail] writes:

>1)  Your main or key light...make this bright.  For a sunny day or
>well-it room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500
>or so.

Hmm, that's about what I thought SHOULD work, but this latest thing I
am working on (using the TEX 3d fonts from Hubcap) I can't see
anything but black and maybe a dim outline untill I crank the light
over RGB=3000,3000,3000 !! (And YES I have set some color attribute to
the 3d text)  I use sperical non shadow light (this is scanline
rendering) and do not have diminish intensity on either.
What I really want to know (in addition to the help you-all have sent
already) is:
What TYPE of light do you use? spherical, diminish intensity, etc...
If your object is at (or moves around near) coordinates 0,0,0  Where
would you put the light source? (x,y,z)
It sounds like most of you use at least 2 lights.  That I will have
to try I bet that will help a lot.  But why do you suppose I need to
crank the light up to such high RGB values?

Am I wrong in thinking Imagine can produce good looking pics/anims in
scanline mode?  Geez, I don't have all month to do a trace animation.
Will scanline mode produce shadows at least in surface details on the
object? (this is more highlights/shading than shadows)
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Subject: TTDDD
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 13:23:29 -0400
From: [e-mail]

Greetings;
        Can anyone out there tell me a little about the program TTDDD?
Specifically what kinds of things can be done with it (especially by none
programmers such as myself). I downloaded some nice 3D fonts from hubcap
that were converted from TeX  with TTDDD. Is this the kind of thing that I
could do with little or no programming? Also what other
programs/excessories would be useful with TTDDD? Thanks for the help!

" be excellent to each other "   George Carlen to Bill & Ted

  Dave Kelly
<---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------>[e-mail]



##

Subject: Professional Fonts in Imagine ??
Date:     Wed, 24 Jun 92 17:02:32 +0200
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

Hi imagining people,

I recently tried to produce some good-looking fonts for Imagine. The
main problem was to provide the letters with these professional looking
edges (for reflecting light etc.). I can't describe it very well cause
I don't know the right words, but in almost every professional Animation
the letters have no simple edges. They have these light reflecting egdes
which makes them look so good.

So I tried to find a way of producing them in Imagine. But all efforts
were useless because Imagine can't outline a letter.

So everyone out there who has an idea of forming letters with these
super edges please help me.

Hannes


P.S.: Hope this mail causes no bounces :)




##

Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 15:23:37 MET DST
From: Markus Stipp <[e-mail]>

> But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the
> renderer.  Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this...
> "fake".  I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage.
> what are typical lighting settings?  what type of lights do you use?
> How many lights?
> Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..)
> I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input
> from you wizards will help me out 8-)

Normally I use one lightsource which is NOT dimnish intensity and will cast
shadows. I place this light FAR away from the scene somewhere behind the
camera. Then I put a few more (3 or 4) lights IN the scene with dimnish
intensity on. A few of them with cast shadows on, others with cast shadows off.
Play with it. I receive fine results with this method.

> In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned
> (sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other
> times I get very uneven light.  Things seem to go from specular
> highlight to black with no color.

I think this is the effect if your lightsource is too near to the objects.

--

   ...Markus Stipp !!   ([e-mail])


##

Subject: Re: Ray-tracing & Radiosity
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:03:29 MDT
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

    StrataVison 3D (Mac program) offers both Ray-tracing and Radiosity,
I don't know however it if allows both at the same time. Probably not.

    Chris Hurtt



##

Subject: Loops
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 12:51 MET DST
From: [e-mail] (Pedro Dias)

I saw that you in an earlier letter mensioned that the now
famous "Tim Seaton-Loop" was done with.
Well, I just had a few more copies dumped into my mailbox,
so I guess you guys did'nt bash your heads together hard enough.

P.Dias, Sweden


##

Subject: TTDDD
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:04:32 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 92 13:23:29 -0400, [e-mail] said:

Dave> Greetings;

Dave>         Can anyone out there tell me a little about the program
Dave> TTDDD?  Specifically what kinds of things can be done with it
Dave> (especially by none programmers such as myself). I downloaded some
Dave> nice 3D fonts from hubcap that were converted from TeX with TTDDD.
Dave> Is this the kind of thing that I could do with little or no
Dave> programming? Also what other programs/excessories would be useful
Dave> with TTDDD? Thanks for the help!

    Hi!  I am Glenn Lewis, the author of TTDDD and TTDDDLIB (also
known as "T3DLIB").  I thought I would post to the list so that
everybody would be up-to-date.

    Basically, the old TTDDD programs, called "ReadTDDD" and
"WriteTDDD" are obsolete, and do not support any of the new Imagine
sub-chunks.  Let me give you a summary of what T3DLIB can do for you
from my point of view, which is obviously quite biased.

    First, T3DLIB consists of two things: a linkable library of
routines that allow programmers to manipulate 3D objects and scenes
easily from within their own applications.  (Of course if you wish to
use my code in a commercial product, you must check with me first, as
one author failed to do.)  The second part of T3DLIB is a collection of
filters that are built using the linkable library.  T3DLIB supports
(reads/writes) most all "chunks" in the Imagine TDDD file format.

    The source code (and executables that run under 2.04 of the Amiga
operating system) are available on hubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1] in
the directory: pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/TTDDDLIB.

    The main program included in T3DLIB is called "ReadWrite".  This
is the one that makes the previous two programs obsolete, as mentioned
above.  "ReadWrite" is simply a filter, but a powerful one.  First off,
I better describe what the TTDDD format is: TTDDD is "Textual TDDD", and
"TDDD" is an IFF (Interchange File Format [?]) that has many "chunks"
and "sub-chunks" that describe objects and scene for Imagine (and
previously Turbo Silver).  "TDDD" was created by Impulse, Inc.  TTDDD
was created by me, and allows any text file to describe in full detail,
all that a TDDD file can describe, but is editable and can be
algorithmically generated.

    Back to "ReadWrite"...  ReadWrite reads a file from its standard
input, and writes a file to its standard output.  The input file can be
*either* a TTDDD *or* a TDDD file, and the output, by default, is a
TTDDD file.  If "ReadWrite" is given the "-tddd" (or "-t" for short)
flag on its command line, it will write a TDDD file that is directly
loadable by Imagine.  Since Imagine does not support "external" objects
like Turbo Silver did, "ReadWrite" will load any "external" objects at
that time and make them internal to make Imagine happy.  Also, if one
wishes to "optimize" points and edges (by simply removing redundancies),
the "-m" (for "merge") flag will accomplish this.  This does, however,
take much longer processing time, so sit back and let it crunch on the
object(s).

    This, obviously, is the most useful (and necessary) program for
dealing with TTDDD and TDDD files.  Here is a list of other utilities
that are included:

tddd2off tddd2nff tddd2vort tddd2ray tddd2ps tddd2mif

    All of the above are also filters, and perform the following
conversions:

tddd2off  - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to OFF format
tddd2nff  - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to NFF format
tddd2vort - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to VORT format
tddd2ray  - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to Rayshade 4.0 format
tddd2ps   - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to PostScript format
tddd2mif  - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to MIF format

OFF is DEC's Object File Format.
NFF is Eric Haines' (SP?) Neutral File Format.
VORT is the "Very Ordinary Ray Tracer", I believe.
Rayshade is that awesome program by Craig Kolb.
PostScript output has 4 views: Top, front, right, and isometric.
MIF is "Maker Interchange Format" for FrameMaker, and looks like the
    PostScript output, but is editable from within FrameMaker.

    The entire T3DLIB package is shareware, and costs $25 to
register.  Details are in the sources archive on hubcap.  As a "Thank You"
for registering, I will send you a disk with the two utilities: TSTeX
(which created the font you viewed on hubcap from public domain TeX
fonts [in PK format]) and SQuad, which generates superquadric surfaces
based upon parameters that you supply it.  Examples of superquadrics are
torii, cubes (with rounded edges), diamonds, and a sphere is a
degenerate superquadric.  I will also send you a copy of the TDDD file
format, which is basically the documentation for the TTDDD file format,
as it uses the same names, but is editable.  I also provide some
examples on the diskette.

    But back to your original question: What can this do for
non-programmers?  Well, you will probably find the utilities useful, and
you may be interested in looking at the geometric details of an object
(OK, maybe not :-).

    Most definitely, though, the power of the package comes from
being able to algorithmically generate or modify objects and scenes for
animating or for simply creating/modifying complex objects.

    Helge Rasmussen, for example, created a program called
"igensurf" that uses the TTDDD format and filters to generate basically
any surface that you can describe mathematically in closed form.

    Steve Worley, for another example, created an animation of a
waterfall by algorithmically controlling the positions of thousands of
little spheres.

    I, for a third example, created the steam locomotive object on
hubcap with the help of TTDDD, and animated the pistons and wheels.

    One of my registered shareware users has a cabinetry business
and models all cabinets and drawers using TTDDD first, and presents a
video of his plans to the customer before he ever starts, making each
presentation expressly unique for that person's kitchen or room.

    Feel free, if you have any questions, to send me e-mail.  I hope
I have answered any questions you have, without attempting to make this
a commercial.

    Future work includes general object morphing for Imagine such
that *any* two objects can be morphed from one to the other, with T3DLIB
creating all the in-betweens, since Imagine currently can only morph two
objects with the same topology (points/edges/faces).

    Of course, work on this will not continue until Steve Worley and
I finish up Essence and ship it.  :-)

                            -- Glenn

Glenn Lewis | [e-mail] | These are my opinions...not Intel's


##

Subject: Amiga Animation Tape
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 14:35:13 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

Well, I got the Avid Video Contest tape last night.
I must say as a starting out animator/video "guy" I was fairly
impressed.  Nothing to really knock your socks off but a wide variety
of amiga video/graphics applications.  For 10$ it is definately worth
it.
There are a few very creative and complex anims and then again there
are a few snoozer parts (some poor B&W digitizing being passed off as
"art")
I would recommend this for any Video amiga user (titling/anim/etc..)
and if you are an anim junky like me, there are enough good anims to
make it worth $10.

#Include standard OPINION disclaimer
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Subject: Re: Ray-tracing & Radiosity
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 3:45:29 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

>
>     StrataVison 3D (Mac program) offers both Ray-tracing and Radiosity,
> I don't know however it if allows both at the same time. Probably not.
>
I believe it does do both at the same time. I read a review in New Media Age
Magazine about several MAC, IBM, and AMIGA packages (Imagine was not there).
They mentioned that it used a custom rendering engine that combined the two.
If anyone is interested, I can look up the issue.

>     Chris Hurtt
>
Juan Trevino
[e-mail]